Hmm. I love Asians but I am white. Who am I to tell my black hybrid not to bang my brown hybrid
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Aren't you Ray guys/gals going the way of the Midevil ( Citrinellum x Red Devil ) ?
- Thread starter Miguel
- Start date
This is kinda what I was getting at with wild hybridization but didn't want to open a whole new can of worms... I am not sure they are all one species... but I think there are a lot less then we like to say there are... especially in the brown ray world... (motor,marble,pearl,aparicio etc)
I'm surprised people are as accepting as they are in regards to mutts...... I hope to see some certain species mixed in the future, but IF I could only stand on one side of the fence I'm holding the pure near and dear.......
Cichlids......... I hate Cichlids....... That's all that anyone here in the Midwest seems to enjoy. The crappy water to them is a celebration and an important ingredient in making more of their aquarium bugs. It's a friggin plague that makes me want to choke myself every time I go into a local fish store or go buy a used tank and have to endure the torture of a 15 minute education in a different language about all these little feeder fish....... Not trying to offend anyone but if you're a MFKer in the Midwest you can definitely understand where I'm coming from......lol
Cichlids......... I hate Cichlids....... That's all that anyone here in the Midwest seems to enjoy. The crappy water to them is a celebration and an important ingredient in making more of their aquarium bugs. It's a friggin plague that makes me want to choke myself every time I go into a local fish store or go buy a used tank and have to endure the torture of a 15 minute education in a different language about all these little feeder fish....... Not trying to offend anyone but if you're a MFKer in the Midwest you can definitely understand where I'm coming from......lol
Rarely am I actually laughing out loud when I type lol but this got me! Rotflmao!
There is no reason we can't work on both hybrids and pure blood. Most of us ray guys here seem to be commendable gentleman so as long as trust remains a non issue so should hybrids. I imagine that most anyone who would dare to pass off a hybrid as pure to one of us would be found out and publicly outted as a shady @?%#.
I feel ya bro. I love all shades and I tend to favor a program of racial deconstruction in which everybody does everybody until we are all the same color
Pure Breda have been worked on for years now they have been done to the max
It's got to a stage now where it's a bit same old same old to me now
Breeding is easy throw a few pups in a tank wait a few year then bang pups
At least with hybrid we are mixing up that gene pool so many go on about being so small
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As with DB I also was not expecting such a supportive majority to hybdrids or crossbreeds( if they are one race ).
Aren't you Ray guys/gals going the way of the Midevil ( Citrinellum x Red Devil ) ?
Miguels' original question is more of a statement, and very valid.
some points ......
Recent DNA studies show that dogs did NOT evolve from wolves....rather they both had a common ancestor.
Most, if not all more ancient breeds of dogs were domesticated for certain behaviors. i.e.:function. Their form followed...until Victorian times, but even then function was still a priority.
Rays are being 'hybridized' for form ( their 'look')only and nothing to do with function, and usually randomly too.
And here's one potential problem ......:
All Pots. are NOT the same. There are often distinct features that define them as separate sub-species.
Some have different teeth structures, different digestive systems, some have wide mouths, some narrow. different ovary function...some produce small litters, others large. Some are aggressive, others are more passive. None of this is being taken into consideration with any of the 'hybridization' that is happening. Most aren't even aware of some of these physical issues.
In the cichlid world, (Discus are an easy example) domestic breeds are so lost down the rabbit hole of inbreeding that not only is the external appearance totally different, but so is their behavior ,to the point where often they cannot recognize gender ( for breeding...ie: females trying to breed with females) they are infertile, eat their young, they are less inactive, they have compromised ( weak) immune systems, deformed gill plates, changed finnage, poor eyesight, shorter life spans that wilds, weaker action/reactions. etc etc
The same aesthetic and lack of care or planning that caused this process to happen to domestic Discus is already hard at work with Rays.
Is this really what you want?
Other problems talking about rays and breeding......:
Hobby definitions and Biology ( as a science) definitions are often not the same. (and are sometimes conflicting or confusing)
"F" generational naming system is different, how it 'works' varies from hobbyist to hobbyist.
The definition of 'hybrid' is used differently,
as are the definitions for species and subspecies , cross-breeds and hybrids, inbreeding, line breeding and outcrossing.
If rays are caught from the wild as a sustainable fishery then they also provide employment and income for thousands of people that need it.
If they are provided from a factory farm elsewhere they are taking that away from the people whose BioResource rays actually should ( imo) be ( the people of the Amazon)
Many many more rays are killed but discarded as trash fish by large Japanese ( and other) commercial fishing vessels that trawl the Amazon than are ever caught for the hobby. Many more are killed as a pest by locals and left to rot on beaches than are ever caught for the hobby.
Miguels' original question is more of a statement, and very valid.
some points ......
Recent DNA studies show that dogs did NOT evolve from wolves....rather they both had a common ancestor.
Most, if not all more ancient breeds of dogs were domesticated for certain behaviors. i.e.:function. Their form followed...until Victorian times, but even then function was still a priority.
Rays are being 'hybridized' for form ( their 'look')only and nothing to do with function, and usually randomly too.
And here's one potential problem ......:
All Pots. are NOT the same. There are often distinct features that define them as separate sub-species.
Some have different teeth structures, different digestive systems, some have wide mouths, some narrow. different ovary function...some produce small litters, others large. Some are aggressive, others are more passive. None of this is being taken into consideration with any of the 'hybridization' that is happening. Most aren't even aware of some of these physical issues.
In the cichlid world, (Discus are an easy example) domestic breeds are so lost down the rabbit hole of inbreeding that not only is the external appearance totally different, but so is their behavior ,to the point where often they cannot recognize gender ( for breeding...ie: females trying to breed with females) they are infertile, eat their young, they are less inactive, they have compromised ( weak) immune systems, deformed gill plates, changed finnage, poor eyesight, shorter life spans that wilds, weaker action/reactions. etc etc
The same aesthetic and lack of care or planning that caused this process to happen to domestic Discus is already hard at work with Rays.
Is this really what you want?
Other problems talking about rays and breeding......:
Hobby definitions and Biology ( as a science) definitions are often not the same. (and are sometimes conflicting or confusing)
"F" generational naming system is different, how it 'works' varies from hobbyist to hobbyist.
The definition of 'hybrid' is used differently,
as are the definitions for species and subspecies , cross-breeds and hybrids, inbreeding, line breeding and outcrossing.
If rays are caught from the wild as a sustainable fishery then they also provide employment and income for thousands of people that need it.
If they are provided from a factory farm elsewhere they are taking that away from the people whose BioResource rays actually should ( imo) be ( the people of the Amazon)
Many many more rays are killed but discarded as trash fish by large Japanese ( and other) commercial fishing vessels that trawl the Amazon than are ever caught for the hobby. Many more are killed as a pest by locals and left to rot on beaches than are ever caught for the hobby.
