Armatus Identification thread

[rumblesushi]

I've started this thread to be sticked, as an ID thread, once the experts chime in. This is to aid prospective buyers such as myself, to make sure we are really getting an armatus.

So experts, now's your chance to strut your stuff

Guys with experience of Arms and Tats please post descriptions and pics, illustrating the difference between scombs and the 2 big boys, and between the 2 big boys themselves. That way anyone who is looking for one, or thinks they may have one, can simply refer to this thread

Now from images I have seen, obviously a Tat is a redtail and an Armatus is a yellow tail. But what are the other differences? An armatus has gold on the gills, and is lighter than a Tatu. However, some Armatus are pretty dark, like Woody's, and also some appear to have a more orangey tail, almost verging on red.

At the size they are usually imported (4 or 5 inches?) what are the tell tale signs to tell one apart from a Scomb?

 

[JD7.62]

This post is very unorganized cause I dont have time to make it all nice and pretty but...here it goes....

The key to IDing an armatus vs tat is the adipose fin. That is it. The adipose of the armatus is orange. A tats adipose fin can also be orange BUT it will MATCH the color the the tats caudal fin. In other words, if the adipose fin contrasts highly with the color of the caudal fin, it is an armatus.

Some say you can go by the clear hyaline edge of the caudal fin that an armatus has, however, new growth on a tat can be clear so that not 100%. Along with the theme of the caudal fin, the tri-dent shape that every armatus exhibits can also be seen in some tats. Color is not a factor either as red-tails can also have yellow tails. Im not sure 100% on this, but with small fish I believe that the armatus has more rounded tips to the caudal fin while small tats are slightly more pointy. Perhaps some one can confirm or deny this for me...

Body color doesnt matter either. Tats can vary greatly from silver to gold and in KRSwopes case, grey.

Also the jaw structure is key, however it is very hard to explain. Those of you that have/seen an armatus in person can attest to this...once you see an armatus in person the jaw structure pops out at you and you can easily distinguish it from a tat. In pictures (even pics Ive seen of my own armatus) it isnt as easy.

Here some pics you all can practice on!

 

[aro-man]

Posted this before but here it is, scomb armatus comparison-->

Armatus:
Red/orange adipose fin
black slash behind gill plate
white edged caudal fin
clear caudal fin base turning to black
extensions in center of tail fin (larger individuals)
swims at a level swimming angle
larger jaw
down turned head

Scomb:
Black adipose fin
black blotch behind gill plate
black caudal fin base turning to clear
no extensions in caudal fin
smaller jaw
upturned head
swims at a slightly head down angle (most of the time)
more pronounced hump behind head

These are some of the things i have noticed between my payaras. Also the two behave differently. Also, in larger fish 6in and up, the arm tends to have a goldish colored head while a scomb is a more darker silver color. Anyone else notice more things different between the two?
p.s. Great Idea rumblesushi!

 

[JD7.62]

aro-man, you are correct on the differences between armatus and scombs. They are relatively easy to tell apart as the easiest way is to look at the humeral spot. An armatus' spot is crescent shaped while a scombs is a spot.

The difference between tats and armatus are not that obvious.

How big is your armatus now?

I believe Im experiencing growth like dmack. Mine has easily grown 3" in about 5 weeks.

 

[rumblesushi]

One thing that's always struck me about armatus at first glance, is the jaw structure and level swimming angle. The jaw structure is a little less arowana like compared to both Scombs and Tatus if you see what I mean.

A few degrees less upward, and more forward pointing.

 

[JD7.62]

Rumblesusshi, swimming angle is also not a good indicator of species. Tats swim level very often and some times an armatus may swim at an angle. Remember it is ALL in the adipose fin. To me that is the only 100% way to tell. Also remember it is NOT just the color of the adipose fin but the contrast of the adipose fin and the caudal fin.

Im no good at making posts nice and pretty with captions under or above a certain pic. Anyone who can do this can use my pics and info and clean it up.

BTW here's the answers to the pics I posted:

1: tat
2: tat
3: armatus
4: tat
5:armatus
6: armatus
7: armatus
8: tat
9: armatus

 

[xander]

haha but this thread still needs WAY MORE PICS. i may be getting a tat at the end of the month. can hardly wait!!

PIC

credits to dovii, cichlids forever, singapore.

 

[killerfish]

quick question which one is this i think its a scomb its like 18''-24'' can't remember but if its a scomb its definetly over 12'' and everyone says they won't grow bigger then 12''

not my pic and not my fish but i've seen it its really cool

 

[rumblesushi]

Hahah, that's definitely not a scomb. It's an armatus, I am pretty sure.

 

[DB junkie]

If I'm not mistaken......what you look for in the adipose is not only the contrast but HOW fine the line is in it. If the pink bleeds into the black it's a Tat. If they are cut and dry so to speak, NO bleeding, very distinct pink stops- black starts, then it's Armatus. This is evident in the last 2 pics in this thread.

No way is the pic above a scomb. if it's indeed from Mike's killer Fish then I'm pretty sure it's an Armatus.