Thank you DB, your info is much appreciated ... and i agree the big predator communities are certainly not ideal to stimulate breeding in the rays ... i kind of look at having pups as exciting and an added benefit to ray keeping, but i wouldnt say thats the reason i got them, if you get me ... gotta do some thinking, but if Mr Male continues he's going to find himself in the goonch tank, that should humble him a bit 
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