AUTOMATIC WATER CHANGER PICS!! FEEL FREE TO CRITIQUE

[X3R0X]

The drain can go to where you want it to go... Right now its going out a window! You could drain into a sewer line or where ever you please.... I live in an apartment, so hooking it up to a sewer line isnt a option for me....


The long tall standing pipe is to increase the flow for when you siphon out the water... Kinda like a release hole on a gas can if you want to think about it like that... It's taller the usual right now because it needs to be for when you pump the water into the tank through that pipe you don't want the water to overflow...

Again this is not my idea, just to let everyone know... CHOMPERS came up with this whole design I just took it and ran with it...

But as of now I am still have problems trying to get enough presssure to push through the first sprinkler valve...

If anyone has any ideas on how to naturally increase pressure let me know! Other then that I think my only option is going to be hooking an external water pump to the hose so I can get enough pressure to suck the water out. Anybody know where I can find a good external pump that pumps around 250 to 500 gph, thats cheap, and that doesn't need to be primed?

 

[Lil_Stinker]

I say good luck with the autochange, but get that stand fixed asap not much lateral protection.

cross brace and such.


I am still looking over your auto change & I think I am missing something on it.

 

[CHOMPERS]

.... I live in an apartment, so hooking it up to a sewer line isnt a option for me....

For the better part of the last eleven years, my drain hose went to the bathroom shower drain. For fill, I modified my under-sink plumbing. Pics soon to follow...

The long tall standing pipe is to increase the flow for when you siphon out the water... Kinda like a release hole on a gas can if you want to think about it like that... It's taller the usual right now because it needs to be for when you pump the water into the tank through that pipe you don't want the water to overflow...

I was thinking the same thing in my design. I had the fill and drain go through the same piping (overflow) just to keep the tank uncluttered. I think for simplicity, it wouldn't hurt to have a separate fill and drain. Either way will work. The height of the pipe will be determined by the power of the pump used in the filling process.

Again this is not my idea, just to let everyone know... CHOMPERS came up with this whole design I just took it and ran with it...

And I should be helping out a whole lot more in the problem solving too (blushing)

But as of now I am still have problems trying to get enough presssure to push through the first sprinkler valve...

Pics of the guts to follow...

If anyone has any ideas on how to naturally increase pressure let me know! Other then that I think my only option is going to be hooking an external water pump to the hose so I can get enough pressure to suck the water out. Anybody know where I can find a good external pump that pumps around 250 to 500 gph, thats cheap, and that doesn't need to be primed?

I was just at a place that handles NASA surplus and such. I picked up a small pump for 18 bucks. I am pumping salt water with it right now but I don't think it will be enough. They had one that is in the 250-500 range that was really cheap...I will be near there tomorrow. They had some valves that needed to be drilled...they were used for liquid CO2...and six bucks each. Most of the other valves were gas valves and are not suitable for continuous duty water use.

 

[CHOMPERS]

and it is nice to see everyone singing my song

a little bracing now will prevent a lot of unhappiness later on.

 

[CHOMPERS]

here is the pic of the pump...it is the red thing in the bucket of bio-material (cheap wet/dry for some salt water fish that followed me home). It pumps 180 gph at 1 ft and 85 gph at 5 ft.

I am going to be using an above ground pool pump for three of my tanks that are stacked. It flows way more at five feet. I didn't measure it, but it has a full discharge out of its one inch hose at five feet. They can be had for $60 at walmart.


The pic of the under-sink plumbing is how I get my fill and wash water. I wash my junk in the shower...it is the only place in the house with a floor drain...

and a series of pics of a sprinkler valve...the left side is the vacuum breaker and the right side is a standard sprinkler valve.

The last one is a sneak peak at what I have going on right now.

 

[CHOMPERS]

The bad news with the valves is they can not be drilled for better performance. Water pressure facilitates their opening by countering the force of the spring on the dry side of the diaphragm. I tried to show the workings of the solonoid in the close up but the detail was not captured. It works like a rack and pinion; it pushes well but it is not attached to the diaphragm to open it. Water pressure (either pumped or by gravity) must open the valve.

Removing or modifying the spring may be the solution. Also, more weight from the water may help too.

Matt, I have not studied the pictures of the system yet. I will do that now and post any thoughts in my next reply.
Ron

 

[CHOMPERS]

...But as of now I am still have problems trying to get enough presssure to push through the first sprinkler valve...

...If anyone has any ideas on how to naturally increase pressure let me know!

...thats cheap, and that doesn't need to be primed?

Ok here are some quick and easy solutions...

Drop the drain valve to the floor or at least as low as the highest point that your hose must transverse. If you have a shower without a tub, buy a hose that will reach it. As soon as the water must go uphill to go out the window or over the tub, the pressure differential against the valve diaphragm will drop.

Any external pump will work. It will be naturally primed if you change the plumbing coming out of the tank. Go with a regular overflow and it will always be primed and ready to siphon anytime the valve is open. Your current overflow plumbing loses its prime each time the tank hits the low water level. If the fill pump does not have a high enough flow rate, it may not evacuate all of the air from the drain/fill plumbing. I will see if I can dig up a pic of one of my overflows and I will explain what is going on in each part of it. If I don't have a pic that is easy to find, my camera is still warm...

 

[CHOMPERS]

here are some pics of one of my overflows. The first is just to show the different parts. The second is to illustrate it in action...just imagine a larger tank ...you get the idea.

The part going over the top of the tank is where the gadget gets its name...the water flows over the side of the tank.

The two loops at the bottom keep the top loop full of water. For many people, the total operation is hard to imagine but it is easier to think of in terms of one section at a time.

For those who did not follow the other thread on overflows, the blue thing on the top loop is an air line check valve. It allows removing the air from that loop (priming it). I thought for a long time that this was not needed after the first priming, but I was informed that large fish in large tanks get a little rambunctious when fed and the splashing causes enough air to stop the siphoning. Also, in my newest application, clearance is a factor and I will not be able to remove them to get the air out or to install them pre-primed.

That lone tube sticking up on the outside of the tank is the vent tube. This is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT piece if you want the overflow to KEEP its prime.
1. The bottom of the tee's exit must be ABOVE the top of the tank side bottom loop (the bottom loop in the tank). If that was too confusing, just make the tee at least one inch above the tanks bottom loop. If the tee is below the inside bottom loop, the water will be sucked out of the overflow loop every time.
2. The vent tube must be on the tee side.
3. If the vent tube is eliminated from the design, the water in the overflow tube will be siphoned out when the low water level is reached.
4. The vent tube must be taller than the overflow loop. If an obstruction is caused down line (valve turning, etc.) water will flow out the vent. In static operation with all valves closed, water will drain onto the floor.
5. I know I missed something...

Everything after the tee is stuff to tailor it to my system... I added a valve here on one of mine to control the speed and gurggling.

Were the water enters the unit, the level of that pipe dictates the minimum water level that the tank will drain down to. My water levels will be fine tuned with slip fittings (fittings not shown but they are the standard slip/slip couplers).

 

[CHOMPERS]

Oh, maybe this is trivial but notice the "mold buttons" on the top loop of the unit. These are the round extra pieces of plastic from molding the parts. I intentionally located them to the top of the loop because they are flat and make an excellent place to drill into. They also give a nice flat area to seal the check valve too.

 

[CHOMPERS]

This post is off topic but it is one of the reasons I have been distracted...I will post a new thread of its construction and inner workings when it is all done. Unfortunately, tailoring an auto water changer will make the valving really complicated since each is on a different level. I thought of having three tanks below, but there is not enough room. My own system will have to wait for my 110 (or 125, or 100. All the same tank, just how you measure it or who you ask.)