Azul's Value

[mjuniorc]

I've been in the cichlid game a loooong time and here are a few observations I have made over the years:

1. Fish are cyclical. What is common as mud today will be very hard to find tomorrow. That's because the market gets flooded with a particular species, everyone gets tired of it and then nobody wants them. People stop breeding and importing them. All of the sudden they are rare and hard to find again. I've seen this more times than I care to remember. 4 years ago I couldn't find a real parrot, Hoplarchus, to save my life. Jeff Rapps finally got some in and I plunked down $100 a pop for 1.5" specimens. Within a couple of years they were all the rage and you were seeing captive bred specimens for $10 ea. They are starting to fade from memory again and I predict that in another 2-3 years they will be virtually impossible to find.

2. Cichla are big fish that require special care, especially after a year in captivity. Most Cichla that are purchased are dead or traded off within a year for a variety of reasons. Too large to house, too expensive to feed, too hard to keep with other fish, etc. Of all the Azul that were brought in 3-4 years ago there are only a handful of them still kicking around. That's because most have died and a few were pawned off on public aquariums. People don't think ahead and don't understand that these fish require highly specialized care. The baby Azul are really cute when only 3" but a year later when you have 6 and all are pushing 12"-14" and your food bill is over $100 a month and what you thought was a "monster tank" at 180 gallons is not so monster anymore...

3. People get bored. How many times do you see people here get all excited about finding a certain species and then 6 months later have it listed for sale.

4. Many people jump on the bandwagon because a particular fish is "hot". Right now Cichla are the in fish. Many people that are buying them are doing so simply because it's cool. Unfortunately for these fish they are the ones most likely to end up dead due to neglect. Those that do survive are sold off. Don't be surprised to see 12" Azul for sale in your local pet store in a year for $25-$50 because they outgrew their owner's tank, are too big to sell and nobody wants them any more. Hobbyists will be desperate to unload them and pet stores will need to take special measures to get rid of them.

5. I see too many people buy fish with the express thought that if it is worth $100 at 3" it will be worth $1500 at a foot! I can make big bucks!! Honestly, I've thought about selling my kelberi. Especially 6 months ago when kelberi were very difficult to come by and I was seeing some crazy prices being paid for larger fish. I think I've missed that window of opportunity since kelberi are becoming quite common. Then again, I love my fish and I'm glad that I still have them. I sincerely regret having sold some of my other Cichla. Plus, if I hang onto them for another 5 years, they'll be uber rare again.

If you like Azul, who cares what they are worth? Buy them and enjoy them for what they are. Just make sure you can care for it properly.

Lastly, it doesn't matter how common a fish is, if you have a large mature specimen of anything that is well taken care of and housed properly it will be a spectacular sight and will make even the most jaded and experienced hobbyists sit up and take notice. Even fish as common as Jack Dempseys or Firemouths are highly impressive fish when mature and well cared for. Again, most people get bored or their fish die before they get to the point where it is an impressive specimen. Even with hundreds of Azul kicking around, make sure your Azul is the biggest and best by treating it right. It will still be an impressive fish!

well said!!!! as a cichla hobbyist, i will be this azul movement...

 

[pwmin]

your 16" is still rare. How many that size do you see? Yes, it'll go down a little, but not a lot for a while.

Plus, at 2", they are hard to keep alive so how many will actually make it to 6"s?

On one hand, it's kind of a bummer that it seems like EVERYONE is getting them right now, but as others have said, most will be pawned off somehow. I don't plan on keeping all 3 of mine, but I'm not looking to get a profit out of the one or two I sell. I'm new, but I'm not a fad Cichlda keeper. All other fish that I love (mostly dats, polys and pikes) have taken a quick backseat and I'm actually thinking of getting rid of some of my other fish that I love, but I can't decide nor do I actuallly think I'll go through with it.

 

[R1_Ridah]

For someone who want instant gratification will depend on what they are willing to pay, again sellers do not set the price, buyers do.

At this moment in time Azuls 15"+ will still fetch a pretty penny, why? because there are not too many around. It will take about 2 yrs for the current batch to catch up in size and I can assure you half of what is out there now will die. It's a proven fact with previous shipments in past.

I really do believe they are farmed now. Not like a fisherman who goes out and nets the fish out the river in minimal quantities to sell. With the amount of Azuls imported they were fished out in an control environment where they would be easily caught to sell. Granted it's still wild because it's in an outside pond or a netted section of the river. I wouldn't be surprised if they were breeding these in Asia as well. So down the road I think they will be available by season. So much will flood the market that eventually they will be as common as everything else. Then people will not want them? back to square one...LOL

Just look at the history of other fish.

GATF - $700-$1000 for a 4-5", now you can't even sell one for $200

Gulper Catfish - $500 for like an 6-8", now you can't even sell two for $50....LOL

Armatus - $500-600 for a 6-8", now you can barely sell one for $250-300?

so on and so on..... It's the name of the game.

Recently I was offered good money for two of my big Cichla. Would I turn this down? No. I'd be foolish if I did. I sold my one big Azul sometime ago and now I have a 50" Plasma hanging on my wall. Do I miss it, of course. But easily forget when I'm watching my Lakers game on high definition.....

There is a limit though on what I would sell. Even my big Kelberi's I was offered buco bucks, but had to decline since my Kelberi's have alot of meaning for me and they are special. Even with all the Kelberi's available I will not sell mine. Shoot, my stunted Mono I was offered $250 just for him and had to refuse.

If your looking at Cichla as a future investment, I think those days are soon to be over. If your into Cichla because of the fact you like PBASS then it's a great time.

 

[xaznkewlguyx]

I've been in the cichlid game a loooong time and here are a few observations I have made over the years:

1. Fish are cyclical. What is common as mud today will be very hard to find tomorrow. That's because the market gets flooded with a particular species, everyone gets tired of it and then nobody wants them. People stop breeding and importing them. All of the sudden they are rare and hard to find again. I've seen this more times than I care to remember. 4 years ago I couldn't find a real parrot, Hoplarchus, to save my life. Jeff Rapps finally got some in and I plunked down $100 a pop for 1.5" specimens. Within a couple of years they were all the rage and you were seeing captive bred specimens for $10 ea. They are starting to fade from memory again and I predict that in another 2-3 years they will be virtually impossible to find.

2. Cichla are big fish that require special care, especially after a year in captivity. Most Cichla that are purchased are dead or traded off within a year for a variety of reasons. Too large to house, too expensive to feed, too hard to keep with other fish, etc. Of all the Azul that were brought in 3-4 years ago there are only a handful of them still kicking around. That's because most have died and a few were pawned off on public aquariums. People don't think ahead and don't understand that these fish require highly specialized care. The baby Azul are really cute when only 3" but a year later when you have 6 and all are pushing 12"-14" and your food bill is over $100 a month and what you thought was a "monster tank" at 180 gallons is not so monster anymore...

3. People get bored. How many times do you see people here get all excited about finding a certain species and then 6 months later have it listed for sale.

4. Many people jump on the bandwagon because a particular fish is "hot". Right now Cichla are the in fish. Many people that are buying them are doing so simply because it's cool. Unfortunately for these fish they are the ones most likely to end up dead due to neglect. Those that do survive are sold off. Don't be surprised to see 12" Azul for sale in your local pet store in a year for $25-$50 because they outgrew their owner's tank, are too big to sell and nobody wants them any more. Hobbyists will be desperate to unload them and pet stores will need to take special measures to get rid of them.

5. I see too many people buy fish with the express thought that if it is worth $100 at 3" it will be worth $1500 at a foot! I can make big bucks!! Honestly, I've thought about selling my kelberi. Especially 6 months ago when kelberi were very difficult to come by and I was seeing some crazy prices being paid for larger fish. I think I've missed that window of opportunity since kelberi are becoming quite common. Then again, I love my fish and I'm glad that I still have them. I sincerely regret having sold some of my other Cichla. Plus, if I hang onto them for another 5 years, they'll be uber rare again.

If you like Azul, who cares what they are worth? Buy them and enjoy them for what they are. Just make sure you can care for it properly.

Lastly, it doesn't matter how common a fish is, if you have a large mature specimen of anything that is well taken care of and housed properly it will be a spectacular sight and will make even the most jaded and experienced hobbyists sit up and take notice. Even fish as common as Jack Dempseys or Firemouths are highly impressive fish when mature and well cared for. Again, most people get bored or their fish die before they get to the point where it is an impressive specimen. Even with hundreds of Azul kicking around, make sure your Azul is the biggest and best by treating it right. It will still be an impressive fish!

well said, and that is the reason why i am only sticking to kelberi's and intermedia's since they are the smallest of the species.

 

[Rebel Souljah]

I've been in the cichlid game a loooong time and here are a few observations I have made over the years:

1. Fish are cyclical. What is common as mud today will be very hard to find tomorrow. That's because the market gets flooded with a particular species, everyone gets tired of it and then nobody wants them. People stop breeding and importing them. All of the sudden they are rare and hard to find again. I've seen this more times than I care to remember. 4 years ago I couldn't find a real parrot, Hoplarchus, to save my life. Jeff Rapps finally got some in and I plunked down $100 a pop for 1.5" specimens. Within a couple of years they were all the rage and you were seeing captive bred specimens for $10 ea. They are starting to fade from memory again and I predict that in another 2-3 years they will be virtually impossible to find.

2. Cichla are big fish that require special care, especially after a year in captivity. Most Cichla that are purchased are dead or traded off within a year for a variety of reasons. Too large to house, too expensive to feed, too hard to keep with other fish, etc. Of all the Azul that were brought in 3-4 years ago there are only a handful of them still kicking around. That's because most have died and a few were pawned off on public aquariums. People don't think ahead and don't understand that these fish require highly specialized care. The baby Azul are really cute when only 3" but a year later when you have 6 and all are pushing 12"-14" and your food bill is over $100 a month and what you thought was a "monster tank" at 180 gallons is not so monster anymore...

3. People get bored. How many times do you see people here get all excited about finding a certain species and then 6 months later have it listed for sale.

4. Many people jump on the bandwagon because a particular fish is "hot". Right now Cichla are the in fish. Many people that are buying them are doing so simply because it's cool. Unfortunately for these fish they are the ones most likely to end up dead due to neglect. Those that do survive are sold off. Don't be surprised to see 12" Azul for sale in your local pet store in a year for $25-$50 because they outgrew their owner's tank, are too big to sell and nobody wants them any more. Hobbyists will be desperate to unload them and pet stores will need to take special measures to get rid of them.

5. I see too many people buy fish with the express thought that if it is worth $100 at 3" it will be worth $1500 at a foot! I can make big bucks!! Honestly, I've thought about selling my kelberi. Especially 6 months ago when kelberi were very difficult to come by and I was seeing some crazy prices being paid for larger fish. I think I've missed that window of opportunity since kelberi are becoming quite common. Then again, I love my fish and I'm glad that I still have them. I sincerely regret having sold some of my other Cichla. Plus, if I hang onto them for another 5 years, they'll be uber rare again.

If you like Azul, who cares what they are worth? Buy them and enjoy them for what they are. Just make sure you can care for it properly.

Lastly, it doesn't matter how common a fish is, if you have a large mature specimen of anything that is well taken care of and housed properly it will be a spectacular sight and will make even the most jaded and experienced hobbyists sit up and take notice. Even fish as common as Jack Dempseys or Firemouths are highly impressive fish when mature and well cared for. Again, most people get bored or their fish die before they get to the point where it is an impressive specimen. Even with hundreds of Azul kicking around, make sure your Azul is the biggest and best by treating it right. It will still be an impressive fish!

On the button...NUFF $AID! Glad I didn't $ee this earlier...man, i really never thought of the value of a fi$h going up and down and being di$appointed that everyone el$e i$ getting $ome cichla love...wow...i don't even wanna get $tarted, SCAT $aid it all, good luck with your A$Z$U$L and K$E$L$B$E$R$I . Its just funny how $ome try hard to get more rare cichla in circulation but other$ get di$$apointed cau$e the are not a$ rare a$ they were. Good luck with your inve$tment in fi$h, but might i $uggest looking into a CD, ROTH, IRA, Savings Account, or Mutual funds, or something. just my opinion, and don't worry. I stop here!!! GL

 

[Bogwoodbruce]

I know what you mean but when you have a fish as beautiful as that, does money really matter?

 

[Bogwoodbruce]

I was offered £250 last summer for my big monoc, and it may not sound a lot but to a 15-16 year old its a hell of a lot of money but i declined just because cichla are pricless to me, especially with just how hard they are to find over here.

I mean i spent £110 on my new WC occel its a lot of money for a realivly common species but its not about rarity, im happy with any cichla species.

 

[channarox]

why are you guys complaining that we can finally get our hands on some fish taht we actually want.

Just because value goes down does it make you not want the fish? Is this why you guys buy the fish? Cause its worth alot of money?

you buy a fish cause you like it...not to make profit...

 

[channarox]

For someone who want instant gratification will depend on what they are willing to pay, again sellers do not set the price, buyers do.

At this moment in time Azuls 15"+ will still fetch a pretty penny, why? because there are not too many around. It will take about 2 yrs for the current batch to catch up in size and I can assure you half of what is out there now will die. It's a proven fact with previous shipments in past.

I really do believe they are farmed now. Not like a fisherman who goes out and nets the fish out the river in minimal quantities to sell. With the amount of Azuls imported they were fished out in an control environment where they would be easily caught to sell. Granted it's still wild because it's in an outside pond or a netted section of the river. I wouldn't be surprised if they were breeding these in Asia as well. So down the road I think they will be available by season. So much will flood the market that eventually they will be as common as everything else. Then people will not want them? back to square one...LOL

Just look at the history of other fish.

GATF - $700-$1000 for a 4-5", now you can't even sell one for $200

Gulper Catfish - $500 for like an 6-8", now you can't even sell two for $50....LOL

Armatus - $500-600 for a 6-8", now you can barely sell one for $250-300?

so on and so on..... It's the name of the game.

Recently I was offered good money for two of my big Cichla. Would I turn this down? No. I'd be foolish if I did. I sold my one big Azul sometime ago and now I have a 50" Plasma hanging on my wall. Do I miss it, of course. But easily forget when I'm watching my Lakers game on high definition.....

There is a limit though on what I would sell. Even my big Kelberi's I was offered buco bucks, but had to decline since my Kelberi's have alot of meaning for me and they are special. Even with all the Kelberi's available I will not sell mine. Shoot, my stunted Mono I was offered $250 just for him and had to refuse.

If your looking at Cichla as a future investment, I think those days are soon to be over. If your into Cichla because of the fact you like PBASS then it's a great time.

well put...
as this hobby advances,everything will go down in price.
then there will be new species available that command a high price.
eventually those will come down in price too.
its the same for fish,and its the same fro clothes etc. etc. etc.

 

[dvs]

For those who have not fished for peacock bass, and only know them as aquarium fish I want to share my experience growing up in South Florida. Long before there was mfk and before I knew about cichla in the aquarium hobby I spent nearly every day after school catching peacock bass in ft lauderdale. I have caught hundreds of peacock bass, different sizes patterns etc. I had days where we would go out and nail 30 in an hour or 2. What you have in your tanks is a true monster. Nothing in freshwater I have seen comes even close to a p bass as far as willingness to smash a lure being retrieved at full speed. They smash topwater lures in amazing fashion too. I had always fished largemouth, but one day I was in the tackle shop and the owner was telling me about p bass. I had no idea they were even in my hometown canals at the time. He sold me a small rattle trap and rapala and told me to cast it out as far as I could, and retrieve the lure as fast I could possibly reel. I was very skeptical that anything would strike a lure that I was reeling in at such lightning speed, but sure enough within 5 minutes using this method I had caught my first p bass. I was amazed at how hard they fought and how colorful they were. Eventually I started thinking about how cool it would be to keep them. I haven't lived in Florida for over 10 years now and haven't seen a p bass since. Until yesterday that is.


I received my first cichla yesterday from rapps (3 kelberi). I chose kelberi because they look great but mostly because of there smaller size.

The point is, for me p bass aren't just another cichlid or catfish or arowana etc. They are in a whole different class. I have also really fallen for dats, but more for their playful nature. A p bass is a freshwater Ferrari no matter if they cost $5 or $500. They are a true beast of a fish and I can't wait to see mine grow.