I like talking about this stuff, so here goes...
Happy New Year!
You used Reeflo information as backup for your internal pump shows that you lacks of knowledge. Most internal pump (I said most, because I haven't used all the internal pumps available in the market) are not pressure pump, not like Reeflo or many other external pump. They move fluid, but put little to no pressure. They can't handle pressure either. If you use smaller pipe than it was designed, it will put pressure on the pump, heat it up, break the shaft, bust the impeller magnet, or deform the casing.
"Head" and "Pressure" are essentially the same things expressed in different terms. The pump, whether it's a mag style (like a Laguna) or direct drive centrifugal pump (like a Reeflo) will provide the specified flow at the specified head or pressure.
Here is the formula to convert head to PSI:
In this example, lets convert 10' of head to PSI.
(10' x 1) / 2.31 = 4.329PSI.
10' head = 4.329PSI
...so to say they can't handle pressure is incorrect; it's a matter of how much pressure they can handle. The Max Flo 4200 can do ~2,000GPH at 4.329PSI (which is also the same as 10' head).
If you are saying that the Max Flo is not a high head or high pressure pump, I agree. For the larger model Ultimas, you would definitely want to use a direct drive pump, but the Laguna Max Flo 4200 meets the specs required to run a Ultima 2000 (2,000GPH @ 10' of head), so using this pump will suffice (unless your system has a bit more than 10' total head).
The correct question to ask is, how much pressure does the pump need to overcome while still pushing the desired GPH through the system?
If someone can provide a clear explanation as to why a direct drive pump pushing 2000GPH at 10' (or 4.329PSI) is any different from a mag drive style pump pushing 2,000GPH @ 10' feet (or 4.329PSI), I would love to hear it...the filters sure can't tell the difference.
If you use bigger pipe than it was design, the pump need to fill the cross area before moving the fluid upward, and that take a little longer than it was design, thus the gph at designed head reduce. That's the reason why your pump manufacturer put such note.
This is false. The amount of fluid moving vertically will be the same if not more, due to the reduction in friction loss by using larger pipe. You are misinterpretting Laguna's note.
You're think the 2000 gph @ 10' is irrelevant, because you have no clue about an Ultima filter. While it was not shown in those fancy charts/pictures that were posted, it's in the manual that you must not put your pump more than 3' from the filter.
Who mentioned placing the filter more than 3' from the pump? It's the plumbing after the filter that I am referring to.
I called Aqua UV and they referred me to Lee at Performance Pro Pumps to help me size a pump to a system where 2,000GPH is desired @20' of head (awesome guy BTW...very helpful and knows his stuff when it comes to pumps). He mentioned that you would actually want to account for 10' of head through the Ultima (as opposed to the 3' to 8' that Ultima mentioned in their FAQ). If you go by his suggestion over Aqua UV's, this pretty much disqualifies the Laguna for running the unit if you have it plumbing into your sump...it also means you would need to buy a direct drive pump, which they happen to specialize in.
Although if Peter plumbs the Laguna and Ultima as a closed loop and places the Laguna in his sump it would likely work very well and he would get the added benefit of the heat the pump puts into his system (assuming he could use the extra heat).
Lee confirmed what I have been saying; the pump needs to be sized to the entire system. On a system with 20' of head, where you want 2,000GPH running through the Ultima 2000, he recommended a pump that does 33 gallons per minute (aka- 1,980GPH) @ 20' of head. What the pump does @ 10' of head is irrelevant.
I am interest in this because I have a spare Max Flo 4200 and I had considered adding a Ultima to my system.
Now, do you have any idea why the 2000 gph @ 10' head is important? Ultima couldn't careless on how many total feet your system is. They just want to make sure that you give the 2000 model 2000 gph (4000gph for the 4000 model and so on...) when the water enters the chamber so that there is enough flow to tumble the media bead. You think the filter won't work with a pump with 0 gph at 15' in a system of 20' head total. That's so wrong! As long as the pump produces 2000 gph @ 10' head, the water will exit the filter. The pump may produce 0gph at 15', but as long as the pump and the pipe can handle the back pressure, eventually, water will come out of the other end, from the pipe being filled. Water got to come out somewhere, whether the pipe was busted, the pump was fried, or take hours before the pipe was filled and water dripping out of the outlet. Being used in aquarium, I hardly think why a system end up with 20' head, unless you run a filter in the garage to an aquarium in the living room.
I don't "THINK" that a pump with 0 gph at 15' in a system of 20' head total will not work....I KNOW it will not work.
The definition of Max Shut-off head is the highest point the pump will lift liquid. At this point the pump will pump 0 gallons per minute, per hour, per month, per year. Take a step back and think about it.
Water will not "eventually...come out of the other end" at any point beyond the pump's shut-off head. Your Ultima will not work unless water is circulating through your system; a pump with a max shut-off of 15' will be moving no water whatsoever through a system with 20' of head.
At 15' of head or at a pressure of 6.494PSI [(15 x 1) /2.31 = 6.494], this pump will not circulate any water.
A system with 20' of head is not unheard of. In the other thread where the dude is running a Ultima 4000, he was also running a sand filter and another unit with 40lbs of charcoal. The Ultima adds on average 5' of head, the sand filter would likely add quite a bit more than that, say 8' and the charcoal another 6'. That's a total of 19' of head before we even get to adding the vertical distance the water needs to be pumped and any friction loss from plumbing/fittings.
You like to reply with fancy charts, color pictures, big words, because you lack of actual knowlege. With the way you put together the sump like the one you're using, you have more to learn than to share. It's very irresponsible to share when you're clueless, because you're playing "expert" at other's expense. If you want to play expert, do it at your expense.
lol- you crack me up John. The charts I am posting are known facts established by those in the field of physics/fluid dynamics. It's a mathematical certainty...look up the Darcy-Weisbach formula; Δp = λ (l / dh) (ρ v2 / 2) (1)
Fiat Lux
PS- Why do you always bring up my filter? You love my filter long time?
