Best Builder Food for rays

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
With each comment I have made in this thread I have provided a link to independent data
Click to expand...

You have supplied one (very weak) link, David. You might want to go back & take a closer look. The rest of your comments are based on nothing more than a vivid imagination.

BTW - I'm not supporting T1karmann because I am affiliated with Hikari (I'm not in any way shape or form), I'm supporting him because unlike yourself he's actually tried a pellet feeding method, and has had great success with it.

But again, all of this was already covered 4 yrs ago.
 
please provide any link to a full nutritional breakdown of any pellet foods that even come close to the detail in the link to shrimp that I provided.
Then also explain your affiliations and qualifications and how they are better than mine..and quit the name calling if you are able.
Thanks
:)
 
This has turned out to be a really good and intrsting thread , a lot of heated discussion but discussion all the same :) I've started using firemedics mix which includes worms , frozen food , spiranula and pellets all blended together. Best of both worlds :)
 
Ah david David David it's nice to see you still know how to waffle on and on without answering the ? In hand

Can you now prove 4 years later after our 1st debate about pellets that they are now bad for rays

after feeding pellets now for 6 years with no side effects I think it's fair to state they are not harmful in anyway

I have put my point forward without waffling on about what's good and whats bad to feed to rays

Most people just pick up a book and read old data about what should be fed to rays and people have taken that as gospel

I see no evidence that feeding pellets is bad for rays

As for zoos and aquariums not feeding pellets well pellets are not a cheap option to feed on a large scale and I wouldn't be surprised if zoos and aquariums get the lower grade stuff or foods that won't be good enough to sell the next morning as they work on a tight budget which doesn't allow the cost of pellets when they can get the fish meat for next to nothing
 
I am NOT saying they are bad, I am saying that a mixed diet of fresh or live food is nutritionally and behaviorally more complete, and much cheaper. I provide links to external sources without a 'horse in this race' .
You on the other hand are saying that your pellet method is best but provide no supporting evidence except limited subjective anecdotes .
There is a BIG difference T1, as a "researcher" you should know this :)
:)

Here's a decent informative link...perhaps this guy doesn't know what he is talking about either?

http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=14
 
And exactly what portion of that article was supposed to support your stance in this debate, David? That one must use a shotgun approach to feeding, so that if one food fails in one area, another will cover that loss?
And would that be part of this scientific research that you speak of?
Yes indeed, very scientific.


please provide any link to a full nutritional breakdown of any pellet foods that even come close to the detail in the link to shrimp that I provided.
Click to expand...


Most fish food manufacturers won't typically divulge this kind of data (beyond what is required by law on a label) as it falls under the umbrella of propritary information. The manufacturing of pet food is a multi-billion dollar industry, so it should stand to reason why I can't lay all of this data out on a silver platter for you. It's one of those, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you, situations. ;)

Perhaps you can provide a full nutritional breakdown of what you feed via your shotgun feeding method? Do you even know what the level of Vitamin C is in any daily feeding that you provide your fish? Surely you must have detailed records on all of these nutrient levels that you can provide for the members here, yes?


I can't speak on behalf of all pellet food manufacturers, but regarding the one that I feed, and have been feeding for the past decade or so, I have seen the nutritional analysis performed by a non-biased 3rd party accredited institution, overseen by those who are considered experts regarding the science of fish nutrition. The information was gathered & published without any knowledge by the manufacturer. (he simply supplied 1 of the foods used in the study) But even if I posted a link to this data short of it being on company letterhead, and witnessed & vetted by the President of the United States himself, it wouldn't prove anything to someone like yourself, would it?

I mean according to you there musn't be a single aquaculture facility in the world that understands the basic principles of fish nutrition, and how all of the nutrients in pellet food are destroyed during the manufacturing process. I mean after all;
"the problem with all prepared foods is that they are stuffed with filler, cooked at extreme temperatures and UV sterilized, both of which destroy vitamins, minerals and amino acids. ".
Click to expand...

Right?

You might want to explain that to all of the multi-million dollar commercial salmon, trout, sturgeon, catfish etc operations that feed pellet food. When one considers that sturgeon caviar can fetch $1,000+ per pound, I'm sure that they would probably be interested in hearing your opinion on all of this. :D


Funny stuff.
 
It doesn't work the way you say as most ray keepers say they feed a varied diet but in fact they feed mainly just one type of food ie prawns or shrimp or silver sideS per day ferber never feed them all on a day to day thing so I
One week it maybe prawn one week silver sides the next and so on

So what is better for the ray when it comes to vits and nutrition 1 prawn or one massive pellets ?

Also 4 years ago on our last debate on pellets you were very convinced that feeding pellets coursed fatty liver do you have anymore evidence to share about this fatty liver caused by feeding pellets as the evidence I have so far that it has no harm on rays is now up to 6 years

Your right I am no researcher but as you know yourself so researchers don't even keep rays themselves at home

What I do have is 6 years knowlage of feeding rays on pellets how many years have you been feeding rays on pellets please don't say none because if this is the case you are in no position to comment on pellet feed as I don't think I have Hurd of anyone with side effects from feeding pellets

I think people are so sure you need to feed sea foods might I add not fresh water are so stuck in their ways they are not willing to give new foods a go like pellets if they do try pellets and the ray doesn't eat them the first few times they feed them they give up

Rays take time to get onto new foods so just because the ray doesn't jump on pellets after the 1st feed don't give up as let's be fair it's very hard sometimes to get freshly imported rays to eat anything dead seafood or pellet
 
anyone know what is generally used in making these carnivore pellets ? i would guess its mainly left over fish trimmings with a few extras . but it would be interesting if anyone had more of an idea
 
Depends on the manufacturer, but generally if all you see is "fish meal" listed, and/or a high ash content, that ingredient is generally comprised of processing plant left overs, as in heads, scales, and bones.

If you see whole fish listed, or a specific type of fish meal, such as herring meal, then it's whole fish that is being used.
 
R.D is an agent of NLS food, so is completely biased and imo lacks any objectivity, as he depends on selling pellet food for his living. He should declare this before making any statements about pellet food. The fact that he didn't only demonstrates how deceptive and unethical these people can be sometimes. Neither is he any kind of experienced ray keeper.
He deceptively tried to imply that he is not involved with selling pellets by denying any association with Hikari.
Ask a Ford salesman which is the best car and he will say Ford, ask a GMC salesman the same question and he will say GMC.
Ask a test driver who doesn't work for either and you will get a more objective answer.
As for his remark about manufacturers not revealing content of their food due to proprietary information, that is just flat out BS. It is a BIG problem in general with the Tropical fish industry that it is not regulated , especially when it comes to truth in advertising.
They will say what they can to help advertising and make their product look good, and withhold other things for fear of negative advertising or because they simply have not done the work. R.D proves this each time he opens his mouth.
Read the last link I provided again, note where it says that much of the food contains meal made from rejected shrimp or fish and pellet food is processed at high temperature...RD is trying to con you that recycled reject fish or shrimp parts are better than fresh 'for human consumption' shrimp or fish, which is obviously wrong.
For T1:
Fatty liver disease work was done by the New England Aquarium biologists, one of the first in the US to breed any species of ray, over 30 years ago. It was a subject covered at the Freshwater stingray symposium in Chicago 2 years ago.

This is tiresome trying to educate 'true believers' so I'm done with it.
all other readers can take what they want from this thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
MonsterFishKeepers.com
Top Bottom