Big Charlie is sooo THICK!

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

you can’t deny this specimen in particular is exceptionally well cared for, the water is clean and u have to give the keeper credit/respect for that.

Not knowing the NO3 reading I can't know how clean the water is so I didn't comment on that. I would consider it clean if the NO3 was 5 ppm or less, taking duanes' advice on exactly what constitutes clean water.

Thats all that matters

Only clean water? So whether or not the fish can also reach full speed/have enough swimming space to exercise, turn around as it would in the wild without having to bend, and have enough tank space for some stimulating decor doesn't matter?

PS: I have seen giant gourami at the zoo before, in a much larger tank than a 568 liter (probably about 7-9 meters). They were swimming at a reasonable pace and quite energetically, which is a very strong indicator to me that Charlie would benefit exercise-wise with some more space.

U can have a large tank that meets fictional requirements and keep chit water. It goes both ways.

Not entirely sure what you mean here?

Things like autodrip systems are far more beneficial to fish husbandry than space.

I cannot agree with you here. Lack of space makes for lack of exercise and lack of stimulation, both of which lead to a very dull existence for a fish.
It's common sense that exercising space is beneficial, and there are studies proving stimulation is also important for fish:

Enriched environment in aquaculture enhances the survival of fish from bacterial disease

A new study has revealed that enriched rearing of juvenile fish significantly enhances the survival of fish from bacterial infection commonly seen in rearing conditions. That may also improve the post release survival of the fish after stocking into the wild.

www.sciencedaily.com

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/7443855/environmental-enrichment-for-fish-in-aquaculture.pdf

Therefore, to reduce stress and prevent a dull existence, I would rank space right up there with autodrip and similar.

Space does not make you a better fish keeper/care provider.

It does, for the reasons above.

Spend some time learning how to keep the space u have better rather than thinking a bigger tank is always the answer.

It is far better for the fish to choose fish that can fit in the space you have. That is what I am doing - so the answer for me is to choose fish suitable for the space I have, as stated.

It will make u a better care provider/keeper.

So what you are saying is, disregarding space in favor of only water quality (which leads to a dull existence for fish) will make me a better keeper? Sorry but I really can't get on board with that.

If u want to be the “loach king”… start reading about auto drip systems

I actually read Loaches Online, where consideration for the welfare of loaches and suchlike is given a lot of thought beyond water quality, extending to psychological and physiological requirements.

 

[SalviniCichlidFan]

I think a combination of both water quality and space is best.

 

[FINWIN]

Quit arguing and pass the butter. ?

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Quit arguing and pass the butter. ?

Better yet, the sweet soy sauce!
Let's do it Indonesian style, like this!

Giant gourami - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[12 Volt Man]

d have enough tank space for some stimulating decor doesn't matter?

I thought the stimulation police were only on reddit? lol??

Tank decor becomes an injury hazard for all monster fish regardless of how much space you have. inevitably they get spooked and smash the **** out of themselves.

many monster fish keepers keep their fish without even gravel or substrate but I can't do that.

oh and the comment about clean water with nitrates less than 5 ppm? no way can you get to that level with monster fish. maybe on a drip system but even then I doubt it.

Charlie's poop is bigger than your schlong.

 

[12 Volt Man]

Lookin good, Charlie. I'd say he's at least 539mm, if not more.

thank you yes I think he is 20 inches long maybe 21 hard to say. he has been this size now for probably the last 2 years or so.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

I thought the stimulation police were only on reddit? lol??

This is not about policing, it's about ethics of animal husbandry. It's been proven stimulation is beneficial for fish and that they suffer without it in those studies I linked, so it's a must for good husbandry.

Tank decor becomes an injury hazard for all monster fish regardless of how much space you have. inevitably they get spooked and smash the **** out of themselves.

I find that statement overly broad. Big fish are not guaranteed to spook and smash on the decor (see Redshark1's 28 year old clown loaches for example), and not all decor is a hazard (like soft plastic plants).
So for those reasons, as well as the previous ones, it's worth having some.

oh and the comment about clean water with nitrates less than 5 ppm? no way can you get to that level with monster fish. maybe on a drip system but even then I doubt it.

Charlie's poop is bigger than your schlong.

If you can't keep the NO3 at 5 ppm or less, the tank is not voluminous enough for the fish. It's very achievable given a voluminous enough tank to dilute waste between tank cleanings, emphasis on voluminous enough.

Now, it is your choice to disregard this or think I'm policing. But in doing so, Charlie wouldn't be helped.
Stanzzzz7 has also given very good advice in similar threads in the past, if they are still active I'd love to know what they have to contribute.

 

[12 Volt Man]

ok for starters, I have actually tried plastic plants in with him. he got scared to death and smashed himself up. so that isn't an option.

Secondly, I've have raised this fish from a tiny baby, he has thrived to get as big and as magnificent as he is. not sure why you think he needs 'help'??

He is and continues to thrive.

Thirdly, the 5ppm or less nitrate comment is nonsense. only way to get that low with huge fish is tons of live plants. and GG eat live plants. you can't do it on water changes alone even in a giant tank with with big water changes. Under 20ppm? maybe. but not under 5. He is a 20 inch fish not a guppy.

So your post is full of misinformation. sorry but its true.

 

[12 Volt Man]

They were swimming at a reasonable pace and quite energetically, which is a very strong indicator to me that Charlie would benefit exercise-wise with some more space.

Charlie goes out for his Pilates classes 2x per week.

are you sure the fish you saw were actually giant gourami? they can go for short bursts for short durations, but they are not generally quick active swimmers like a barb etc. Obviously they charge quite quickly for food though etc.

they generally swim at a relaxed pace most of the time though.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

ok for starters, I have actually tried plastic plants in with him. he got scared to death and smashed himself up. so that isn't an option.

How long did you leave them in there? It's possible he hadn't gotten used to them yet, and had you left them in longer, he would have been used to them.

Or, if you put them in after he was without decor for a while, he may have been so stressed in general that the addition of anything new stressed him out. Kind of like how a person or dog raised in a relatively bare room indoors for the duration of their lives would likely become stressed by the addition of a playground structure or a complex kennel structure, because the stress of not having any enrichment/entertainment for their lives has become so great that they can't recognize the new additions as positive because of the great stress.

QUOTE="12 Volt Man, post: 8432752, member: 20500"]
Secondly, I've have raised this fish from a tiny baby, he has thrived to get as big and as magnificent as he is. not sure why you think he needs 'help'??
[/QUOTE]

I don't believe he has thrived in this tank given the above reasons - and what's more, just because he has grown from a baby does not mean he is thriving. As an outside example, you can raise, for example, a German Shepherd to adult size in a bedroom and grow it up from a tiny puppy.
But does that mean it will thrive and do as well as it would in much larger quarters generally agreed on by German Shepherd owners? If you were to ask said owners, they would answer absolutely not.

Not to mention, duanes has had giant gourami and I'm fairly certain he said they outgrew a 568 liter. I would be interested to know his opinion on whether or not Charlie has a large enough tank and whether he is thriving or just surviving.

QUOTE="12 Volt Man, post: 8432752, member: 20500"]
Thirdly, the 5ppm or less nitrate comment is nonsense. only way to get that low with huge fish is tons of live plants. and GG eat live plants. you can't do it on water changes alone even in a giant tank with with big water changes. Under 20ppm? maybe. but not under 5. He is a 20 inch fish not a guppy.
[/QUOTE]

Nothing you said refutes the simple math of enough water volume making 5 ppm or less NO3. For example, let's say Charlie was in a tank 10 times larger than he is now - so 5,680 liters.
That would mean NO3 would be 10 times lower than it was in the 568 liter given the same volume and frequency of water replacements. And if the percentage of the water replacements was the same (meaning 10 times more water being replaced in absolute terms), the NO3 would be 100 times lower than the 568 liter.
Unless your NO3 is >50-500 ppm (which I doubt, especially 500 ppm), one or both of those regiments would undoubtedly take it down to 5 or less.

And I'm fairly certain they were giant gourami that I saw. They were whitish grey and very comparable to the Wikipedia image of the giant gourami.

With no disrespect intended, you don't appear to want to change your mind and it doesn't look like either I or anyone on Reddit* can have you do so. So I don't think I see a point in further commenting and most likely will not.
I'd also like to reiterate that all this disagreeing with myself and those Reddit users is only harming Charlie. He is the true loser.

*I of course wholeheartedly agree with the many users on Reddit, specifically here and here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/usjvor

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/ucpq7p