Blacktips

[Zoodiver]

Without knowing more specifics on the area or details on age/growth rate and method of study, it's hard to offer more input.

Natural stunting I could see - but that wouldn't be a good thing to study in captivity by anymeans. Shoot me a PM with more details and I'll see what other info I can pass along to help. Especially when it comes to "normal" black tips in the wild vs in captivity for comparison sake. We can look at growth rates, blood cultures, skin scrapes and almost anything you want to compare. (Obviously, I'm not in the market to buy/sell sharks.)

 

[krj-1168]

Well - it sounds like made be a case of Dwarfism thru Population Isolation.

While I've heard of cases of this in mammals - such as with Human ancestors & even Prehistoric Elephants. Also there are some cases among the dinosaurs. But this is the first I've heard of among sharks.

While in the natural cases the "dwarf" animals are often about 1/2 the size of their larger counter parts - and may take several generations- about 3 centuries for humans, and more like 5 centuries for elephants.

So to happen naturally for sharks - I would imagine a population of say Blacktip Reef sharks would have to be trapped in a lagoon for at least a couple hundred years. Then maybe over time - you might end up with a population that averages about 30" long.

But I can't see this type of Dwarfism happening thru man-made means within a normal human lifetime. IT would take minimum of 150-200 years for this to happen with any known species of shark.

 

[serafino]

As krj-1168 said it would take a relatively long time in terms of humans to be able to do this in captivity. Although I can see this happening naturally in a completely isolated section of the world that was once connected to the ocean.

 

[VLDesign]

Yeah I read your post, and that's the response you get when you don't provide information other than my friend said ....... and he said........ then you expect people to believe you based on what? your 3 post count?

Sorry if you think I am being too harsh but unless you (Meaning anyone who makes claims with no proof) offer up some proof to backup your story I tend to not believe it. Just the way I am. It's the nature of the Internet actually.

Perhaps a better way to approach this would have been to link a PDF research paper or site that shows a little bit of information such as observed growth rates over an extended period of time type chart as well as anything other then "my friend said".

"I could really care less if someone thinks its BS b/c I am not asking for your opinion"

And actually you did by posting this message in a public forum.

"I wanted to network with any others who might have knowledge of this or may have found similar area's were this is occuring."

 

[Zoodiver]

Perhaps a better way to approach this would have been to link a PDF research paper or site that shows a little bit of information such as observed growth rates over an extended period of time type chart as well as anything other then "my friend said".

I would love to see the research as well. Proving this would take years of study at a technology level we haven't had that long.

 

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

Yeah I read your post, and that's the response you get when you don't provide information other than my friend said ....... and he said........ then you expect people to believe you based on what? your 3 post count?

Sorry if you think I am being too harsh but unless you (Meaning anyone who makes claims with no proof) offer up some proof to backup your story I tend to not believe it. Just the way I am. It's the nature of the Internet actually.

Perhaps a better way to approach this would have been to link a PDF research paper or site that shows a little bit of information such as observed growth rates over an extended period of time type chart as well as anything other then "my friend said".

"I could really care less if someone thinks its BS b/c I am not asking for your opinion"

And actually you did by posting this message in a public forum.

"I wanted to network with any others who might have knowledge of this or may have found similar area's were this is occuring."

and if it were truly for the sake of scientific research; why remove them from their habitat and 'bring them to the states'? why come to MFK for info and not a university or aquarium?
i agree with the above, total BS with a bit of troll

 

[krj-1168]

NOTE - I didn't say it was impossible. The very fact that it has happened in the past with other types of animals means it's at least possible that a "dwarf" species of blacktip could exist.

However without actual concrete proof - it just sounds like one of those - "Too Good To Be True" stories.

 

[Jim96Sc2]

Pictures and measurements of the sharks perhaps.

 

[water_baby83]

All I will say in defense of the research at hand is that this particular group is found in a lagoon completely secluded from open water. Our initial impression is that they have been basically stuck in this lagoon for so long it has in fact stunted there growth. I will go to my friends and obtain a pic of one so that everyone can see it. This group has been studied for years prior to shipping to the states. I initially did not want to post this information due to people like VLDesign who obviously dont read the post, in that I am trying to compair data with others who may have knowledge of other similar groups and not trying to sell them on the open market. I could really care less if someone thinks its BS b/c I am not asking for your opinion or money.
Thanks to those who have actual imput.

Word to the wise..... When addressing members on this forum, you should know that there are several of us who are not your "average joe" keepers, but rather individuals who on a daily basis work with these animals, study them, and interact with several research projects nationally and internationally. Secondly, you will be hard pressed to find any member within this forum who would ever even entertain the idea of taking such remarkable animals from the wild, especially ones who just might have a scientific significance of adaptation. So when it comes to your posting several times statements such as "I don't want your money", "I am not selling these animals", etc., etc..... Chill, we don't want them.

Now, considering that you are dealing with a diverse group of individuals, some of which are Aquarists, Zoologists, Biologists, and the like, approach us as such, and give us a little more credit and respect than you recently have, (by going all high and mighty on us and refusing us details because you think we are ignorant fools out to deplete this claimed group of individuals).

Truth be told, we are skeptical because we are analytical and scientific. If you cannot furnish the proof - by way of photographs at this "Secret" location, or film, and if you have no research material to back this "study", then how in the world would you expect to "share" any information.
If your claims are valid, I understand your hesitation to reveal too many location specific details, BUT that would not stop you from providing film or photographs of this natural area, nor would it prohibit you from sharing any documented research material, as all it would take was a simple redaction of the specific location.

BUT if you refuse to provide such, you cannot expect us to simply rely on your word. Especially not those of us who make our living careing for, interacting with, and studying these animals ourselves, and who have several connections in the scientific communities who as we speak, handle this type of observation and documentation of varied species.

Provide something of merit, or dismiss the topic.

 

[agreeive?fish]

I am not taking sides here as i am by any steatch of the imagination or fantasy a marine biologist even though it was a child hood dream job factors in life stopped that dream but...In nature (especially the ocean) there are life forms we have never seen and some we will never see in our life time so is max 30" black tips possible...i say its possible...so is a 100ft prehistoric deep deep deep deep water shark we have no idea of exactly what is in the ocean as humans have not explored every inch of the ocean for every second of every day so possible yes... now i do agree that the original poster should provide some sort of proof even though some of us may not understand the proof dosent mean we cannot enjoy it or the challange of understanding it just my common man opinion... is my common man opinion worth much in the grand scheme of things NO.. is my common man opinion (and experience level/or lack of experience) worth much on this forum probably not infact the only place my opinion would realy matter is in my life but thats life so you now have my opinion and if you agree with it fine if you dis agree with it fine...