Boy, have things changed.........

[Dan F]

I found some of the scenarios funny and others less so...

I think we do need to remember that in 1957 they didn't have to worry about the very real possibility of armed students going on a killing spree at school.

By the way, my Grandma (born in 1911, still alive) never once hit my father (born 1936, R.I.P.) and he went to college, became a dentist, and died honored by his community for his work in education and decades spent taking care of people's teeth, wether they could afford it or not. You don't need to beat a child to make them into a good citizen, in fact it has the opposite effect more often than not.

 

[Miguel]

I found some of the scenarios funny and others less so...

I think we do need to remember that in 1957 they didn't have to worry about the very real possibility of armed students going on a killing spree at school.

By the way, my Grandma (born in 1911, still alive) never once hit my father (born 1936, R.I.P.) and he went to college, became a dentist, and died honored by his community for his work in education and decades spent taking care of people's teeth, wether they could afford it or not. You don't need to beat a child to make them into a good citizen, in fact it has the opposite effect more often than not.

There is a big difference, Dan, between "beating " ( as in cuffing ) and spanking.

I abhorr spanking and find it an unforgivable frailty and lack of human quality of the spanker.

A cuff, on the bottom or ( as my boys all remember, on the nape ) does wonders. A good cuff, done on the exact moment it is needed ( not afterwards, based on hearsay ) is much more appropriate, in my book, than some horrible punishments that are given by people who cry out loud about never beating....

( but, then again, I am the proud father of a horde of huns, and have no facility to effectively enforce punishments, LOL )


just my 2 cents, anyway.

 

[Dan F]

There is a big difference, Dan, between "beating " ( as in cuffing ) and spanking.

I abhorr spanking and find it an unforgivable frailty and lack of human quality of the spanker.

A cuff, on the bottom or ( as my boys all remember, on the nape ) does wonders. A good cuff, done on the exact moment it is needed ( not afterwards, based on hearsay ) is much more appropriate, in my book, than some horrible punishments that are given by people who cry out loud about never beating....

( but, then again, I am the proud father of a horde of huns, and have no facility to effectively enforce punishments, LOL )


just my 2 cents, anyway.

I understand the difference, and I didn't mean to imply that if you lay a hand on a child you are a bad person.

What I meant to say is that you don't NEED to hit a child to raise them up right. Or, conversely, hitting a child won't guarantee that they will grow up to be respectable citizens. Many convicted felons were raised with no shortage of spankings/beatings.

"Paddling by the Principal" and "a good whipping with his belt" would not fall into the "appropriate corrective measures" chapter in my book. Like someone said earlier, making the kid work to pay for the broken window would be a much better punishment and would teach the child a valuable lesson.

 

[rmorse]

I found some of the scenarios funny and others less so...

I think we do need to remember that in 1957 they didn't have to worry about the very real possibility of armed students going on a killing spree at school.

By the way, my Grandma (born in 1911, still alive) never once hit my father (born 1936, R.I.P.) and he went to college, became a dentist, and died honored by his community for his work in education and decades spent taking care of people's teeth, wether they could afford it or not. You don't need to beat a child to make them into a good citizen, in fact it has the opposite effect more often than not.

Again, with the myths. I can't remember if I said it in this thread, or the other one.


Do research! Columbine, nor V tech, was not the worst school shooting. People absolutely had to worry about that back then. They just didn't have the media coverage.

 

[Dan F]

Again, with the myths. I can't remember if I said it in this thread, or the other one.


Do research! Columbine, nor V tech, was not the worst school shooting. People absolutely had to worry about that back then. They just didn't have the media coverage.

Ok, I definitely could be wrong on that - since you've done the research, would you mind sharing?

 

[rmorse]

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm

1927. 45 people killed, 58 injured.

 

[rmorse]

Ok, I definitely could be wrong on that - since you've done the research, would you mind sharing?

I just finished a class on school violence last semester, which exploded the majority of todays myths. Schools are the safest place children can be. Most dangerous? At home.

 

[rmorse]

Here are a couple more oldies.

June 11, 1964: Cologne school massacre. Armed with an insecticide sprayer converted into a flamethrower, a lance and a homebuilt mace, 42-year-old Walter Seifert entered the Katholische Volksschule and opened fire on the girls playing in the courtyard. He then knocked in classroom windows with his mace and fired inside. Eight children and two teachers died, twenty children and two teachers survived with very severe burns. After taking a cyanide pill, Seifert died the following day, in custody.

August 1, 1966 : University of Texas Clock Tower Shootings. After killing his wife and mother, Charles Whitman pointed a rifle from the observation deck of the University of Texas at Austin’s Tower and began shooting in a homicidal rampage that went on for 96 minutes. He killed fifteen people and wounded 31 others before being shot dead by police. David Gunby was wounded in the shooting but died 35 years later after ceasing dialysis

May 15, 1974: The Ma’alot massacre was an attack, carried out in Ma’alot, Israel by members of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, that occurred on May 15, 1974, the 26th anniversary of Israeli independence. In this massacre members of the DFLP murdered 22 religious high school students from the city of Safed. Ma’alot, located on a plateau in the hills of the Western Galilee region of Israel, some six miles south of the Lebanese border, was a development town founded in 1957 by Jewish refugees, mainly from Morocco and other Arab countries such as Tunisia. The terrorist attack was perpetrated by three members of the Popular Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PDFLP), al-Jabha al-Dimuqratiyya li-Tahrir Filastin.

(That one isn't fair, bc it is Israel.)

 

[rmorse]

Aaaaaaand some more.

May 23, 1940: “Infuriated by a grievance, Matthew Gillespie, 62-year-old janitor at the junior school of the Dwight School for Girls here, shot and critically wounded Mrs. Marshall Coxe, secretary of the junior school, on the first floor of the building this afternoon.”

July 5, 1940: “Angered by the refusal of his daughter, Melba Moshell, 15 years old, to leave a boarding school here and return to his home, Joseph Moshell, 47, of 252 East Girard Avenue, Philadelphia, visited the school this afternoon and shot and killed the girl, according to the State Police.”

November 18, 1942: “Erwin Goodman, 36-year-old mathematics teacher of William J. ***nor Junior High School in Brooklyn, was shot and killed in the school corridors on Oct. 2 by a youth whose hand he had clasped in thankfulness for acting as peacemaker a few minutes earlier.”

February 23, 1943: “Harry Wyman, 13-year-old son of Mr. and Mrs. Frederick Wyman of Port Chester, NY … shot himself dead tonight at the Harvey School, a boys’ preparatory school.”

June 26, 1946: “A 15-year-old schoolboy who balked at turning over his pocket money to a gang of seven Negro youths was shot in the chest at 11:30 A.M. yesterday in the basement of the Public School 147 annex of the Brooklyn High School for Automotive Trades.”

November 24, 1946: “A 13-year-old student at St. Benedict’s Parochial School here shot and fatally wounded himself tonight while sitting in an audience watching a school play.”

December 24, 1948: “A 14-year-old boy was wounded fatally here today by an accidental shot from the .22-caliber rifle of a fellow-student … the youth was shot in the head when he chanced into range where Robert Ross, 17, of Brooklyn, was shooting at a target near a lake on the school property.”

March 12, 1949: “A 16-year-old student at Stuyvesant High School, 345 Fifteenth Street, was accidentally shot in the right arm yesterday afternoon by a fellow student who, police said, was ’showing off’ with a pistol in a classroom.”

July 22, 1950: “A 16-year-old boy was shot in the wrist and abdomen at 10 o’clock last night in Public School 141 … during an argument with a former classmate. They were attending a weekly dance sponsored by the Board of Education.”

November 27, 1951: “David Brooks, a 15-year-old student, was fatally shot as fellow-pupils looked on in a grade school here today.”

April 9, 1952: “A 15-year-old boarding-school student who shot a dean rather than relinquish pin-up pictures of girls in bathing suits was charged with murderous assault today.”

November 20, 1952: “Rear Admiral E. E. Herrmann, 56 years old, superintendent of the Naval Post-Graduate School here, was found dead in his office with a bullet in his head. A service revolver was found by his side.”

October 8, 1953: “Larry Licitra, 17-year-old student at the Machine and Metal Trades High School, 320 East Ninety-sixth Street, was shot and slightly wounded in the right shoulder at 11:30 AM yesterday in the lobby of the school while inspecting a handmade pistol owned by one of several students.”

October 20, 1956: “A junior high school student was wounded in the forearm yesterday by another student armed with a home-made weapon at Booker T. Washington Junior High School.”

October 2, 1957: “A 16-year old student was shot in the leg yesterday by a 15-year old classmate at a city high school.”

March 12, 1958: “A 17-year-old student was indicted yesterday for carrying a dangerous weapon. He had shot a boy in the Manual Training High School March 4.”

May 1, 1958: “A 15-year-old high school freshman was shot and killed by a classmate in a washroom of the Massapequa High School today.”

September 24, 1959: “Twenty-seven men and boys and an arsenal were seized in the Bronx last night as the police headed off a gang war resulting from the fatal shooting of a teen-ager Monday at Morris High School."

 

[Dan F]

I just finished a class on school violence last semester, which exploded the majority of todays myths. Schools are the safest place children can be. Most dangerous? At home.

Wow, that really was a terrible tragedy, but it was quite different from the more recent school shootings. The incident you linked to was an act of terrorism/mass-murder by an adult, not a case of students turning against their classmates/teachers.

I'm curious if today's schools are safer today with the "zero tolerance" stance towards weapons at school? Did they address statistics over time in your class.

I agree that our schools are a lot safer than home for many kids these days...

Sorry for the massive derail of a humorous thread, but as a 2nd/3rd grade teacher in a public school, this subject hits close to home for me!