Breaking News out of Florida!!!!!

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ballinouttacntrol said:
Maybe Zimmerman attempted to detain him? After all, he said these punks always get away. Maybe zimmerman felt disrespected by martins respond when he went to talk to him? After all, he correctly identified Martin as a teen and he's an elder. Idk, we don't know how the altercation started. No witness for that


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The thought of Zimmerman trying to detain Martin has played out in my head, too. Of course, I always think of the legal end of it. Is a neighborhood watchman allowed to do that? I'm not entirely sure a citizens arrest is considered a violent confrontation unless he tried to detain Martin by knocking him out, which I highly doubt happened.



Inglorious said:
Why is it obvious that M would have started it? Z could have been trying to make an unfounded citizens arrest and M is the one who felt that his life was in danger first. Like I said, the only two people who know what was said and what actions took place are either dead or trying to stay out of prison. No one else will really know the truth.
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In my opinion, Martin started it when he approached a neighborhood watchman's vehicle with his hand in his waistband and a hood over his face. If Zimmerman had shot him right there, he would STILL have half a self defense case just from the threatening manner of Martin as well as the 911 tape. If I were Zimmerman, I wouldn't have followed a guy who was threatening through body language to have a gun, but he put his personal safety aside for the protection of his neighborhood. Personally, I would have just waited for the police, but thats just me. That would just be my decision, not because I was legally required to.
 
How is a citizens arrest where you'd physically have to detain someone not a physical altercation? You'd have to attempt to restrain him unless he willingly went

Your version of the story about walking up to the suv is news to me. According to the 911 call transcript z said he just passed me, not he walked up to my car and pretended to have a gun. Where did you hear this?


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ballinouttacntrol said:
How is a citizens arrest where you'd physically have to detain someone not a physical altercation? You'd have to attempt to restrain him unless he willingly went

Your version of the story about walking up to the suv is news to me. According to the 911 call transcript z said he just passed me, not he walked up to my car and pretended to have a gun. Where did you hear this?


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk
Around 55 seconds...just before he id's him as a teen...

I know it is a physical altercation, but is it beyond his rights? If he said "come with me, the police will be here shortly", would that warrant a self defense attack on Martin's part?
 
ohhhhhhh, the first time i listened to the audio and read the transcript i mainly focused on the middle to end. i see what you're talking about now. i remember reading this, it never occurred to me that that's what he was doing with his hands. i just assumed he was holding his baggy pants up. yeah...even more of a reason why zimmerman should not have gotten out of his vehicle and pursued a 6'3" hooded man. i felt uneasy and on full alert the other night (10 at night on a boardwalk) when four teens/young adults where walking toward me with those skullface bandana so i can only imagine why zimmerman would get out of his vehicle and follow a 6'3" hooded figure.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
 
frnchjeep said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk
Around 55 seconds...just before he id's him as a teen...

I know it is a physical altercation, but is it beyond his rights? If he said "come with me, the police will be here shortly", would that warrant a self defense attack on Martin's part?
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I've never heard the actual call. M supposedly reaching for a gun does sound funny. He was most likely trying to intimidate Z from continuing to follow him. But everything is speculation, and Nothing is obvious here. M could have attacked Z in fear. Z could have tried to detain M and a fight broke out. An argument could have taken place between the two once M realized he was still being followed, resulting in the fight. Or it could be just as Z stated, and M jumped him for no reason while he returned to his car.

One thing that you can tell from the recording is that Z never intended to cease his pursuit when he told the dispatcher to just have the police call him for his location, instead of meeting by the mail boxes.

When he decided to continue to pursue M, it made Z's claims of self defense harder to prove. And while it's easier to prove ones innocence than guilt without actual evidence, one thing is for certain. Trayvon Martin would most likely be alive today, and this whole thing avoided had Zimmerman decided not to continue following M as he was told. Does that make him guilty of manslaughter...idk?

The prosecution is gonna have a really hard time trying to prove anything other than Z's story. But the question is, can Z be protected by this law, when he initiated the confrontation by continuing to follow M. I'm not saying following someone is illegal, rather placing yourself in a bad situation due to your own negligent actions(ie: man shoots girlfriend's husband after the husband catches them in the act, and attacks him) Either way, in my mind Z is responsible for M's death, and guilty of very bad judgement.

On another note, if you ever decided to follow someone who you thought had a gun on them, how many of you wouldn't do so with guns drawn? If Z's gun was drawn, it would surely contradict his story. Just speculation though ;)
 
I thought the confrontation happened when Z got out of his car to follow M into a courtyard? If M had already approached Z's car while appearing to be carrying a weapon then why did Z leave the safety of his vehicle instead of waiting for the police?
 
Never listened to whole call before, didn't hear the second half after he started pursuing him.

Bottom line he should have stayed in the car. If I was in that situation, regardless if I was armed or not, I wouldn't have gotten out of the car to follow him. I still remember Florida, I remember what it can be like.
 
Inglorious said:
I thought the confrontation happened when Z got out of his car to follow M into a courtyard? If M had already approached Z's car while appearing to be carrying a weapon then why did Z leave the safety of his vehicle instead of waiting for the police?
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it did. he followed martin by car, not sure how long, called it in, had a four minute phone call with the dispatcher and 4 minutes later an officer arrived and martin was dead. it all happen so fast.
 
Breaking News out of Arizona!!!
Grapeade prices plummet after nationwide boycott

IMG00586-20120507-1339.jpg

That's right, those 6's aren't upsidedown 9's, dropped to 66cents.

I can't believe this thread fell to the second page...
 
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