Breeding feeders for Dovii

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
That's funny, I'm guessing you didn't read all of the info posted in that last link? I referenced the top in the field, from past to present, including Alex Chong, and his studies. And you would prefer that I feed this to my fish, have a necropsy performed post mortem, just to be able to state my finding from personal experience? Just to prove that feeding BH isn't a problem? Yeah, sure.

Here's a comment from one of the long time members of simply, someone who was always held in very high regards by the owner and mature members of that site. (Mat aka ShinShin)

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?73086-quot-Beefheart-quot-under-the-microscope/page4

"In the beginning, when discus were being imported in milk containers from S.A. , mortality was high. Germany was getting most of the discus then. Feeding was a problem. The wild fish were not taking the dry foods available at that time. Live food was fed almost exclusively, with tubifex being the discus' favorite food. As we know, and they did, too, tubifex were carriers of several types of pathogens. Many experiments were performed. Someone (I do not recall his name, but have it in an article packed away) sliced beefheart into worm-like slivers, and the discus began to accept it. Over time, more experiments provided us with the ground mixes we have now. It's popularity today is mostly out of tradition and cost effectiveness with bigger breeders and farms. It is not the best food for discus though. Dr. Schmidt-Focke was one of the first to realize this, and quit feeding his discus BH in favor of a seafood diet. Untergasser also has showed us the harm BH can have on discus and other cichlids. Dr. Winfree, who makes a living on fish nutrition in the lab and the tank, also rejects the idea of BH as a diet for all types of cichlids.

Discus cannot digest mammalian fat, known as hard fat or tallow, causing gut problems for the fish. Fat collects around vital organs, shaving years off a fish's life. Discus have been known to live up to 15 years. The harmfulness of mammalian meat to cichlids is not a theory, it has been clinically proven. BH does contain the least amount of fat than any other muscle in a steer."

.......................................


Sound familiar? That thread was from 2009-2010, a thread that I participated in. That's where that discussion ended ......
 
  • Like
Reactions: Backfromthedead
It is true that beef gives fish heart problems BUT I don't think the OP is using them as a staple, like your discus story. Eating hotdogs every day will give you heart problems, but once in awhile it is a good treat.
 
RD. said:
That's funny, I'm guessing you didn't read all of the info posted in that last link? I referenced the top in the field, from past to present, including Alex Chong, and his studies. And you would prefer that I feed this to my fish, have a necropsy performed post mortem, just to be able to state my finding from personal experience? Just to prove that feeding BH isn't a problem? Yeah, sure.

Here's a comment from one of the long time members of simply, someone who was always held in very high regards by the owner and mature members of that site. (Mat aka ShinShin)

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?73086-quot-Beefheart-quot-under-the-microscope/page4

"In the beginning, when discus were being imported in milk containers from S.A. , mortality was high. Germany was getting most of the discus then. Feeding was a problem. The wild fish were not taking the dry foods available at that time. Live food was fed almost exclusively, with tubifex being the discus' favorite food. As we know, and they did, too, tubifex were carriers of several types of pathogens. Many experiments were performed. Someone (I do not recall his name, but have it in an article packed away) sliced beefheart into worm-like slivers, and the discus began to accept it. Over time, more experiments provided us with the ground mixes we have now. It's popularity today is mostly out of tradition and cost effectiveness with bigger breeders and farms. It is not the best food for discus though. Dr. Schmidt-Focke was one of the first to realize this, and quit feeding his discus BH in favor of a seafood diet. Untergasser also has showed us the harm BH can have on discus and other cichlids. Dr. Winfree, who makes a living on fish nutrition in the lab and the tank, also rejects the idea of BH as a diet for all types of cichlids.

Discus cannot digest mammalian fat, known as hard fat or tallow, causing gut problems for the fish. Fat collects around vital organs, shaving years off a fish's life. Discus have been known to live up to 15 years. The harmfulness of mammalian meat to cichlids is not a theory, it has been clinically proven. BH does contain the least amount of fat than any other muscle in a steer."

.......................................


Sound familiar? That thread was from 2009-2010, a thread that I participated in. That's where that discussion ended ......
Click to expand...


That was an interesting read on beefheart. Thank you for posting that link! Certainly there are a few people against beefheart with their studies and from that thread there are people and studies in favor of feeding it. A lot of uncertainty though for sure on adverse long term health affects is what I came away with. Now it's several years later and if you go to simplydiscus, nothing much has changed with beefheart popularity that i'm reading. Nobody is posting 10+ year old monster discus fed with foods other than beefheart. I personally find that my discus and other cichlids enjoy other foods more than beefheart. I don't offer it anymore, but have nothing against it. Just a pain in the arse to prepare the mixes and cut up the darn stuff to remove fat. Al's post on the last page of that thread was excellent and summed it up very well btw. Hopefully in short time we will have studies on other foods like pellets (nls, etc) and the adverse affects of feeding a lifetime of those
 
There has been an extensive study done on the feeding habits of dovii in nature in Costa Rica. Dovii fishing is considered a major and integral part of the freshwater tourism industry
Although the gut contents of young dovii has been found to be predominantly fish (cichlid, and other species fry).
The gut content of adult dovii has been found to contain a large percentage of insects (aquatic and terrestrial).
Here in Central America this would seem to be normal because of the plethora and size of what falls in the water.
I doubt that beef would be a normal part of their evolutionary biology.
fullsizeoutput_3be.jpeg
fullsizeoutput_1c1.jpeg
fullsizeoutput_469.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: J. H.
There are no studies in favor of feeding beef heart. Even the studies that support the use of a high protein diet, only state such for JUVENILE discus. Al was talking out of his arse about quantifiable effects on the fishes health and longevity, when we know for fact that excess fat in a fishes diet can lead to necrosis of hepatocytes, atrophy of the pancreas, etc. Clearly that affects the longevity of a fish. The real testament on Simply regarding BH was around the same time period when there was a thread on the average age of discus owned on Simply - which Al told me was 4-5 years. I was stunned at the time. Cichlids that only live 4-5 yrs on average. WTF? Even in that BH thread some people were poo-pooing fish over 6-7 yrs of age, as those fish would be on the decline so whatev. (see comment below) There are cichlids over 15 yrs of age, owned by folks on this forum, that have eaten pellets almost exclusively their entire life. Almost every fish that I have ever owned has lived what would be considered a normal or typical lifespan, and all have been raised on pellet food. This is not shocking news for anyone that has kept their fish for the long term.

If a cichlids (Discus, or whatever species) natural lifespan is 10 yrs, or more, and the average fish owned by a collective group is dead by the age of 4-5 (so said Al on Simply) then maybe those folks ought to be taking a closer look at what they are doing, as in feeding beefheart to a fish that as an adult (in the wild) does not consume a diet that is even remotely close to mammal meat.

As stated in that discussion, in Heiko Bleher's Discus book vol 1. it gives a full description of wild Discus nutrition and states that the 5 most common items eaten by discus in the wild are; detritus, vegetable matter, algae & micro algae, aquatic invertebrates, terrestrial & arboreal arthropods. That does not equate to the high protein mammal meat based diets that are utilized by certain hobbyists. I even suggested back then, as I would now, If one feels the need to supplement the diet, I would think that insects such as ants, spiders, cricket parts, mealworms, etc would be far better suited to their digestive system, than foods such as beefheart.



I was also quick to note that in Al's last post, nowhere did I see one of his goals in keeping discus, to be their longevity. His attitude apparently mirrored others on that forum.

"And nowadays, I doubt anyone here will keep any of their Discus to old age. There are too many different colors and strains out there, and everyone wants them. People are always selling off, or trading on here, their Discus, to get new ones. New strains. New colors. I doubt any will die of old age...neglect? yes."
 
  • Like
Reactions: ViLLyN and J. H.
Never realized how complicated it was keepin dovii's, mine eats dog food, fried shrimp & mcdonalds fries. He's 15yrs. old, 17". He does have some social issues!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
MonsterFishKeepers.com
Top Bottom