Bringing down Nitrates - A miracle cure?

[Mr.Firemouth]

I think the most important point is that the nitrates arent the only pollutant in your tank,its just the one thats easily testable.So remove the nitrates and youve removed your only measurable indicator of how bad your water is.

The most important point is indeed that Nitrates are only an indicator of water quality.
I assure anyone who reads this that a tank with 0ppm nitrates is not necessarily clean water!!! There are many other pollutants that we do NOT test for!!! These include phenols, pheromones, hormones, bacteria, etc.!!! By doing substantial water changes to dilute the Nitrate concentration one can ascertain that the other compounds have been diluted as well!!! That is the point. DILLUTION IS THE SOLUTION!!!

HTH, Rich

 

[alcohologist]

exactly. one of the best posts i've read in a long while.

 

[nomadofthehills]

The most important point is indeed that Nitrates are only an indicator of water quality.
I assure anyone who reads this that a tank with 0ppm nitrates is not necessarily clean water!!! There are many other pollutants that we do NOT test for!!! These include phenols, pheromones, hormones, bacteria, etc.!!! By doing substantial water changes to dilute the Nitrate concentration one can ascertain that the other compounds have been diluted as well!!! That is the point. DILLUTION IS THE SOLUTION!!!

HTH, Rich

 

[Peanut_Power]

It seems like there would be some sort of crash when the bacteria ran out of nutrients. You know, kind of like humans when they run out of sugar.

Water changes always seemed to work. Or you could get a fluidized sand trickle filter. That would help I'm sure...haha

 

[johnptc]

The most important point is indeed that Nitrates are only an indicator of water quality.
I assure anyone who reads this that a tank with 0ppm nitrates is not necessarily clean water!!! There are many other pollutants that we do NOT test for!!! These include phenols, pheromones, hormones, bacteria, etc.!!! By doing substantial water changes to dilute the Nitrate concentration one can ascertain that the other compounds have been diluted as well!!! That is the point. DILLUTION IS THE SOLUTION!!!

HTH, Rich

carbon removes most doc's

 

[Mr.Firemouth]

Yes, Activated carbon does remove most DOC's, to an extent. So does Purigen and other white carbon products.

Iron oxide resins remove more than carbon and bind phosphates, hence the new Chemi-pure Elite products!

Poly pads from poly bio marine also remove DOC's, as does many zeolite products.

These are all adsorption/absorption products that all have different affects on DOC's and all either clog their micro pores or become exhausted at exponential rates. So, each day that passes they are less and less effective as chemical filters.

2 solutions to the problem exist. 1. rinse the media each week vigorously to remove detritus and bio-films. 2. Replace the media every 30 days.

Again, what is being removed? DOC's? Which ones? What concentrations? How effectively?

Who knows what the filter media is or is not removing? How much is released back to the water column when the media is saturated?

Yet with a water change, assuming the source water is clean(nitrate and phosphate free), there is always a mathematical reduction of waste products in direct ratio to the amount/percentage of water removed and replaced. This is also increased dramatically when the water change frequency is increased.(like 2 changes a week or 95% changes at one time).

No one should rely on, or trust their filter media to protect their tank more than a weekly water change can. This is also true for the "Carbon Loading technique". These things are only to help maintain stability of the water's waste threshold and chemical balance between water changes. Never were they designed to replace water changes.(quotes on products that do say their product eliminates the need for water changes is just tacky marketing)

Chemical Balance is yet another benefit to the water changes. PH, KH, GH, NO3,PO4 are all much easier maintained and kept stable long term thru steady and constant water change schedules.

HTH, Rich

 

[Mr.Firemouth]

Here is a quote from Author Cecil Griffith on DOC's...

What is a dissolved organic compound?

An organic compound is any compound that contains one or more atoms of carbon. Natural waters, freshwater aquariums and saltwater aquariums contain a great variety of soluble organic compounds. These include such compounds as sugars, fatty acids, humic acids, tannins, vitamins, amino acids, proteins and urea. Suspended organic matter in water includes remains of organisms in various stages of decay and living phytoplankton, zooplankton, fungi and bacteria. Sometimes each of the concentrations of individual organic compounds is not measured. Instead it is more common to measure total particulate organic matter, biochemical oxygen demand, or chemical oxygen demand. These variables are indicative of the total quantity of organic matter in water.


Where do they come from?

The major source of dissolved organics in aquaria is the natural biological processes that accompany having a tank full of fish that are fed often. Fish feed, fish wastes and other particulate organic material are colonized by bacteria which break the material down into dissolved substances. The basic step is for particulate carbon to become dissolved carbon. More fish and more fish feed means a higher concentration of organic substances.

So, this quote explains a little more of what Doc's are and where they come from.

You see we do not test our water for most of what a DOC is. However, all the DOC's combined affect oxygen demand and water quality(gauged thru Nitrate and phosphate tests). Ideally dissolved oxygen levels should be as near to 7ppm as possible. Saturation occurs at 10ppm. You need extremely clean water filtered of both particulate matter and dissolved organics to reach 10ppm.(as oxidation of these compounds will affect the dissolved oxygen concentration).

This in turn is another reason why increases in both surface agitation via pumps and airstones and increasing internal flow of the water column are so important! The use of a properly sized Koralia powerhead will help the dissolved oxygen level greatly. Here is one in use on my 180g...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNdNgELqC50

HTH more, Rich

 

[Tommydeal]

So what's the technique for "Carbon Loading" a FW tank? Can it be done regardless of pH and without a deep sand bed? If so, how much sugar or vodka do you dose and how often?

 

[Plasticmotif]

http://puffernet.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html

That's some really good information on the nitrogen cycle.

Most people don't know about Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter

Nitrosomonas - is a proteobacteria that basically feeds on nitrogen by removing ammonia to produce Nitrite which is then taken care of by (look down)


Nitrobacter is by-product of Nitrosomonas, and is another chemoautotrophic proteobacteria that converts nitrite into nitrate.



Adding sugar, like Mr. Firemouth said...just 'fuels an explosion' ,which again is an excellent short-term sollution. Water changes are always better[SIZE=+1]
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[Tommydeal]

Adding sugar, like Mr. Firemouth said...just 'fuels an explosion' ,which again is an excellent short-term sollution. Water changes are always better[SIZE=+1] [/SIZE]

How much sugar per gallon? Any modification needed to a standard FW tank with a W/D filter to employ this technique?