Can you get ick with out adding new fish?

[Tj203]

Treating for only 2 weeks in a 600 gal tank, is hardly enough to make even a small dent in a ick population.
Using salt on 600 would require you to add 18lbs, so unless you added that amount, its no surprise ick again reared its only head.

What dose the size of the tank have to do with the length of treatment? And for the 3rd time I used a calibrated hydrometer to set the salt level, And it have been over a year since. I went through 2 bags of 50lb salt.
Also 2 weeks is enough to see a decrease in population I caught it very early

 

[FJB]

With ick, there is no such thing as "the infected fish", or "the sick fish". When there is ick in a tank, one has a whole "ick-infected tank" that must be treated properly, and for sufficient time to get rid of it completely. If you move "the sick fish" to another tank, all you accomplish is now having two ick-infected tanks. Often you don't see spots on all fish - that means very little. In addition, often the parasites affects first tissues that are most sensitive but relatively out of sight (lamellae in gills, for instance), before showing as spots on body and fins. By the time you see spots all over, the fish is struggling big time and may die if particularly sensitive, or if highly infected.
You have been given excellent advise. Your choice from here on. Good luck with the vet...
It is critical that you use different hoses, nets, buckets , etc and that you don't stick hands in one tank and then go to another without major cleaning. All of that is certain to move ick around. It happens incredibly frequently. Again, Good luck!

 

[Tj203]

With ick, there is no such thing as "the infected fish", or "the sick fish". When there is ick in a tank, one has a whole "ick-infected tank" that must be treated properly, and for sufficient time to get rid of it completely. If you move "the sick fish" to another tank, all you accomplish is now having two ick-infected tanks. Often you don't see spots on all fish - that means very little. In addition, often the parasites affects first tissues that are most sensitive but relatively out of sight (lamellae in gills, for instance), before showing as spots on body and fins. By the time you see spots all over, the fish is struggling big time and may die if particularly sensitive, or if highly infected.
You have been given excellent advise. Your choice from here on. Good luck with the vet...
It is critical that you use different hoses, nets, buckets , etc and that you don't stick hands in one tank and then go to another without major cleaning. All of that is certain to move ick around. It happens incredibly frequently. Again,

I think moving the most sick fish to another tank and treat them more aggressive, and do a lower dose for longer because I have loches and a $1000 pleco is much better then leaving him in the main tank.

 

[jjohnwm]

The only thing you might achieve by removing and treating the visibly-infected fish is perhaps preventing a few more batches of new parasites dropping off that particular fish and adding to the parasite population of the tank. You can't treat the fish, since the white spots on it are embedded parasites which aren't vulnerable to treatment. The only stage of the life cycle that is killed by treatment is the free-swimming stage that emerges from the cysts after they drop off the fish and sink to the bottom. This is why, as stated multiple times by multiple posters, you must treat the entire tank.

Was the "right salinity" the absolute minimum suggested as a treatment? Perhaps a slightly higher concentration might work? If you are on a drip system, that would begin to decrease the salt concentration in your tank immediately, so if you add only the bare minimum it will quickly drop to a suboptimal level. Either shut off the drip system, or add more salt than required. You'd need enough in the tank so that after 24 hours of dilution by the drip system the concentration is still higher than the minimum requirement, and you would need to add more salt daily after calculating how much is lost daily to the drip.

Ich is a PITA, but it is one of the most easily cured aquarium diseases out there. Sorry, but it just seems extremely unlikely that your tank, alone out of many thousands or millions, has developed some new super-Ich strain that doesn't respond to proper treatment. It's more logical to assume that if the bug persists, then the treatment...perhaps for the reason I mentioned, perhaps for some other reason...simply isn't being done properly.

Also, as stated earlier, the parasite is easily transmitted from one tank to another by wet nets, siphons and other tools. Disinfecting this stuff in a bucket of weak Betadine solution or similar is an easy and effective way to limit tank-to-tank cross-infection.

 

[Tj203]

The only thing you might achieve by removing and treating the visibly-infected fish is perhaps preventing a few more batches of new parasites dropping off that particular fish and adding to the parasite population of the tank. You can't treat the fish, since the white spots on it are embedded parasites which aren't vulnerable to treatment. The only stage of the life cycle that is killed by treatment is the free-swimming stage that emerges from the cysts after they drop off the fish and sink to the bottom. This is why, as stated multiple times by multiple posters, you must treat the entire tank.

Was the "right salinity" the absolute minimum suggested as a treatment? Perhaps a slightly higher concentration might work? If you are on a drip system, that would begin to decrease the salt concentration in your tank immediately, so if you add only the bare minimum it will quickly drop to a suboptimal level. Either shut off the drip system, or add more salt than required. You'd need enough in the tank so that after 24 hours of dilution by the drip system the concentration is still higher than the minimum requirement, and you would need to add more salt daily after calculating how much is lost daily to the drip.

Ich is a PITA, but it is one of the most easily cured aquarium diseases out there. Sorry, but it just seems extremely unlikely that your tank, alone out of many thousands or millions, has developed some new super-Ich strain that doesn't respond to proper treatment. It's more logical to assume that if the bug persists, then the treatment...perhaps for the reason I mentioned, perhaps for some other reason...simply isn't being done properly.

Also, as stated earlier, the parasite is easily transmitted from one tank to another by wet nets, siphons and other tools. Disinfecting this stuff in a bucket of weak Betadine solution or similar is an easy and effective way to limit tank-to-tank cross-infection.

You obviously don't read! I clearly wrote that I am treating the whole tank 3 or more times. I pulled the fish So I can treat him more aggressively because I have sensitive fish in the main tank.
As far as the salt level I USED A HYDROMETER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was 1.003 everything thing I read it could be from 1.001-1.003 I went on the high end. As far as the drip system I'm not stupid I know to turn it off.

As far as the ick strain a quick Google search will show you there are ick strains resistance to heat,salt and other meds. That's why you use chloroquine. also my tank did respond to treatment just not the salt and heat.

 

[jjohnwm]

You obviously don't read! I clearly wrote that I am treating the whole tank 3 or more times. I pulled the fish So I can treat him more aggressively because I have sensitive fish in the main tank.
As far as the salt level I USED A HYDROMETER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was 1.003 everything thing I read it could be from 1.001-1.003 I went on the high end. As far as the drip system I'm not stupid I know to turn it off.

As far as the ick strain a quick Google search will show you there are ick strains resistance to heat,salt and other meds. That's why you use chloroquine. also my tank did respond to treatment just not the salt and heat.

Actually, I do read. But life is busy, so thanks for saving me from bothering to read any more of this drivel. Good luck...you apparently know what you're doing...can't imagine why it isn't working for you.

 

[duanes]

What dose the size of the tank have to do with the length of treatment? And for the 3rd time I used a calibrated hydrometer to set the salt level, And it have been over a year since. I went through 2 bags of 50lb salt.
Also 2 weeks is enough to see a decrease in population I caught it very early

Size matters because there is so much more to space (in substrate, in filters etc) to treat, and inert cysts may sit, inert, (when they are inert, they are untreatable).
High salinity, or even other meds, cannot enter the impermeable cell wall of an inert cyst, it only works when they are motile.
This is why the last time I treated for ick (in my over over 300 gallon system) I kept the treatment going for at least 2 months.
All ick do not simultaneously hatch, they hatch at different times, under different conditions, and if just one or two hatch once the salinity tapers off.
That one or two can reinfect, and you may not immediately notice the onset in a large tank.
And I agree that heat can be ineffective as a treatment.
Here in Panama there is a strain that exists in water temps above 90'F.

 

[Tj203]

Well just as an update I just got off the call with the vet that specializes in aquatic animals and I was told to reduce the temperature in the tank to 76-78, what!!! That is the opposite of everything I have ever read. The reasoning behind this is that it is worse to stress out the fish at the higher temperature, if you lower the temp to normal the fish will be able to fight off the ICK better. The 2 or 3 days you will speed up the cycle is not worth it. I was also told that the cyst hatch when you turn the lights off. I have never heard that before so when you do a water change you should turn the lights off an hour or more before. The next think is taking out the fish that are showing the signs of infection and treating them in another tank this is what the veteran suggested to me without me asking, the theory behind this is you are not letting the cysts drop off and reproduce in the main tank so you are limiting the exposure to the other fish after most or all are off the infected fish you put them back in the tank and continue to treat the whole tank. Next think I was told we all know was to add air stones and vitamins to the water. But then she told me I need to treat my tank for 4 weeks but I can switch to treating every 2 day instead of every 24 hours. The last think that I can remember now is that is ok to use medication and salt at the same time. You just don't need it at 1.003 constrain you lowere it to 1.001 or a bit higher. I hope this helps some people because it is different from what I have been told by alot of people.

 

[Matteus]

Well just as an update I just got off the call with the vet that specializes in aquatic animals and I was told to reduce the temperature in the tank to 76-78, what!!! That is the opposite of everything I have ever read. The reasoning behind this is that it is worse to stress out the fish at the higher temperature, if you lower the temp to normal the fish will be able to fight off the ICK better. The 2 or 3 days you will speed up the cycle is not worth it. I was also told that the cyst hatch when you turn the lights off. I have never heard that before so when you do a water change you should turn the lights off an hour or more before. The next think is taking out the fish that are showing the signs of infection and treating them in another tank this is what the veteran suggested to me without me asking, the theory behind this is you are not letting the cysts drop off and reproduce in the main tank so you are limiting the exposure to the other fish after most or all are off the infected fish you put them back in the tank and continue to treat the whole tank. Next think I was told we all know was to add air stones and vitamins to the water. But then she told me I need to treat my tank for 4 weeks but I can switch to treating every 2 day instead of every 24 hours. The last think that I can remember now is that is ok to use medication and salt at the same time. You just don't need it at 1.003 constrain you lowere it to 1.001 or a bit higher. I hope this helps some people because it is different from what I have been told by alot of people.

Thank you for sharing this.

 

[FINWIN]

Well just as an update I just got off the call with the vet that specializes in aquatic animals and I was told to reduce the temperature in the tank to 76-78, what!!! That is the opposite of everything I have ever read. The reasoning behind this is that it is worse to stress out the fish at the higher temperature, if you lower the temp to normal the fish will be able to fight off the ICK better. The 2 or 3 days you will speed up the cycle is not worth it. I was also told that the cyst hatch when you turn the lights off. I have never heard that before so when you do a water change you should turn the lights off an hour or more before. The next think is taking out the fish that are showing the signs of infection and treating them in another tank this is what the veteran suggested to me without me asking, the theory behind this is you are not letting the cysts drop off and reproduce in the main tank so you are limiting the exposure to the other fish after most or all are off the infected fish you put them back in the tank and continue to treat the whole tank. Next think I was told we all know was to add air stones and vitamins to the water. But then she told me I need to treat my tank for 4 weeks but I can switch to treating every 2 day instead of every 24 hours. The last think that I can remember now is that is ok to use medication and salt at the same time. You just don't need it at 1.003 constrain you lowere it to 1.001 or a bit higher. I hope this helps some people because it is different from what I have been told by alot of people.

Interesting, that's similar to what I did...I also put the salt directly on the substrate. In about half an hour the powerheads would dissolve it. Never changed regular temps either, just around 79-80.

Only exception was I had to suspend Paraguard because my rainbow gets sensitive to it after 48 hours.