Catfish ideas

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
The Trachy downs massivore like no tomorrow, the jag gets shrimp pellets and carnivore pellets. And I also offer worms but haven't seen the jag eat that in awhile and haven't seen the Trachy take one. Sometimes I take some shrimp when my sister cooks and I cut it up and throw it in. I don't see them go to the top so that's all they get. They get real fat off of it.
 
May I suggest we leave a little room for breathing in this windwhirl? :) If not, sooner or later we'll all need to be medicated. Perhaps, tranquilized with darts by security first, then medicated. For some, the order might need to be reversed.

With such catfish diversity, you can try many combinations but must have more tanks to separate if or when needed. First, so that no one eats anyone. Second, territorial disputes.

It'd be pretty hard to state: OK, such and such combination could work out for the lifetime of each fish and the owner's.
-- First it is always a gamble.
-- Second, there are always exceptions and everyone's tank differs (I'm not denying trends and predictive knowledge base at all, only punctuating the caveats).
-- Third, no one can vouch for the fish lifetimes because many / most / all these catfish should be expected to live 20-30 years at least and we have no such experience under our belt. Not much at all.
-- Fourth, everyone's life marches on - Jaws may need to curtail his hobby in 1 or 10 years or expand it in 5 years beyond our dreams, who knows... in any case, those catfish will not spend until year 2040-2050 in that 8'x2.5', chances are.

7777: Bolt or vulture (leaning towards bolt), juruense, jaguar, batrochoglanis raninus, leiarius marmoratus ???
TBTB: My bolts did ok with vultures in 240 gal when they were small, ~6", and have done well (2 bolts and 6 vultures) in 4500 gal when bolts were 8"-10" and vultures 10"-18". Never had larger bolt+vultures in a smaller tank. So that'd be an unknown gamble to me. I am with Moe that bolts are not aggressive to non-bolts. In my puny experience anyway.

Jur wouldn't pay attention to any non-Brachyplatystoma unless it is hungry and can swallow a tank mate. They are more of a sitting-pretty fish than swimming-a-lot, so 2.5' may work out, albeit, I personally would not be comfortable if I knew there'd be no chance of upgrading ever in the coming say 3 years.

Achara is out of the question - in 1-2 years its maxillary barbels will span close to over your 2.5' width.

Overall, IMHO if no one can swallow anyone, this combo could cohab peacefully at small to medium sizes, especially as Kolt said with sizeable jaguar cats. There are ways to make jags and raninus always visible too. May require a compromise - the only hide they should be able to utilize would have to have glass as one of the hide's walls.

KS: Juru's don't seem as food aggressive as other cats and I always worried about mine but I might have been messing with myself. They're so pretty you just feel like they have to be fragile.
TBTB: IME none of the Brachyplatystoma are gluttonous, they are not ravenous, not desperate. Most usually. They are royalty and as such feed with dignity, unlike other neanderthals...

KS: ... IME apurensis aren't that predatory when well fed
TBTB: I agree, but still, for a peace of mind, I'd not cohab an apu with anything that can fit in its humongous and deceptive mouth. Especially if my tenancy and marital bliss were dependent on it. How calmly could you sleep each night knowing that your next night in this nice and cozy bed next to a gorgeous woman depends on stupid catfish?

KS: ... Shilbe for instance has been a cat I've wanted but just can't get my hands on. By the way do you know of any vendors who get them? I also didn't know that Volta Giraffe don't grow as large as other Occidentalis.
TBTB: I scored one trade-in accidentally. Can't recall seeing them for sale except once or twice a long time ago. Cannot offer any details. Your favorite contact Toyin can be asked as Africa importer. As for g-cats (you mean Auchenoglanis), the consensus so far is that Volta grows to about 1'. Might be a little over.

KS: Viktor believes the Vulture should be eliminated so I'll err on his side because I never kept one as a adult and he has several.
TBTB: I actually would be all hands for a vulture pack, tons of personality, the wife and kids should squeal with delight, if there is a prospect of upgrading in 2-3 years. If 8'x2.5' is for life, I'd rather not, you are right.

7777: ... Hemisorubim platyrhynchos...
TBTB: Never had that one. Very rarely offered. Heavily tempted to snatch a few from Rapps but can't right now. I'd expect it to be a mellower and smaller TSN version. But could be way wrong - it might be less predatory.
Party pooper. :( Bringing us down from our catfish induced euphoria. lol :D

I thought I mentioned that large size differences should be avoided and I always use the word think because I never try to assert anything as fact or definitive unless I know it's a fact or a definite. You are right though it should have been mentioned that back up tanks should be available. I've personally never had issue with catfish aggression other then my Apu so I assumed any real danger of cohabiting would be from predation by bigger catfish.

Like Jaws I lol'd at your description of ones tenancy and marital bliss being solely dependent on a catfish known for being irritable and predatory not eating another fish. I also loved the way you described Brachyplatystoma, it's spot on.

The Volta Giraffe stuff I actually learned while posting in this thread. I thought it unusual for you to recommend such a large fish for such a tank. Upon investigation I found your threads on MFK and Planetcatfish and was enlightened to their smaller max size. A very cool bit of knowledge because I personally always wanted a Giraffe and now I know it might be feasible.

I've only seen Shilbe for sale once as well but it was bluegrass who had them. I really regret not picking up a group.

As for the Platyrhynchos Jeff is already down to just one. Apparently they've been selling well for him.

moe214 moe214 these guys what you were referring to trachelyopterus galeatus ? How are they as far as hiding ?
J jaws7777 I was the one who mentioned galeatus. As far as hiding they're like most woodcats generally secretive but IME they are easier to coax out then Jags/Oncinus.
 
Well hell youre lucky huh, I wish my jag was 8" already. I believe them to have a difference in pattern from juvenile to adults, mine is breaking up a little but barely. And she is the boss of her tank, I even put my 10" sun cat down there when it was getting picked on and it chased everyone in there but her, amazed me with her being the smallest fish, she bit it whenever the sun cat stuck its nose near her. The other fish she is with is a 7"+ erythrinus sp peru, and a slightly larger marbles goby. She was with a jag cichlid up until recently, the jag laid eggs and I don't need a female so I put her in the bigger tank to let "nature" take its course. But "nature" in this tank is weird. She was intended for the only two fish that can eat her whole, Trachy and curu, however she died slowly and painfully, I watched as the gold ripped bites off slowly due to the curupira chasing him off every time he bit the jag. Yes the curu was defending her. But god forbid I put a fish I once considered a favorite such as the goby who I can't get often, then the curu wants to eat them; it's like he can be my only favorite. And I read jag cats max at 9" also assumed it was TL; but maybe I was misinformed.
I was that was about 10 years ago when I first joined MFK when I last kept Oncinus. I never noticed a pattern change as they got bigger but I also wasn't as attentive back then as I am now. See that's another difference I've noticed with Woodcats when you only have a few they become very protective of their hide but the more you have the more inclined they seem to be to share. :confused: I at the time had bought extremely large white PVC for them to hide in and rather then fight I found the Trachy's, Galeatus, Oncinus and my Gulpers all squeezed into one Pipe. I'd hear an occasional grunt or two as one jockeyed to reposition themselves but never saw the aggression I see when I kept them in fewer numbers. Sorry to hear about your Jag but believe it or not it may have been a blessing in disguise at least for you. Cichlid dorsals make them very hard to swallow and I've had more then one fish get them caught in their throat including a large Curu. My Trachys however seem to be experts at eating such fish as mine have successfully downed many a cichlid and even Dats with their impressive dorsal spines. So if your Curu got to the Jag first it might not have been able to swallow the Managuense. Planetcatfish lists fish at SL and they have Oncinus down at 9.8 while Seriously Fish has them at 25cm/10 inches SL but then you have Scotcat who says 17.5cm/7 inches but they don't specify if it's SL or TL. And finally Fishbase which has them at 17cm/6.69 inches TL.

Wish I could have a group. Maybe one day I'll get a 4x2x1 to put under the 120 and get more. Mines isn't to shy. Like I said she's out most of the night and comes out when I first turn the light in in the morning, take me about 40 min to get ready for school and she's usually still out by the time I leave swimming back and forth and up and down nonstop. And she comes out to eat in light or dark.
Your lucky too then as some people have their Jags completely disappear into their tank. I've seen vids of people using really narrow pvc pipe to direct food into a hide specifically to feed them. Mine used to come out any time food was presented otherwise during the day they where in their pipe. Only my Trachys and galeatus made occasional outing to patrol.

As I said above I had the jag cat with a jag cichlid for numerous months, I noticed the jag cat nip the cichlid at first but after that there was never any interaction between the two. The jag cat only really bothers my ery. She chases him, it's funny cause the size difference and he has the teeth to do damage out of the two.
Again you're lucky every cichlid I had other then my Oscars seem to hate my Trachys and my unidentified Trachy sp. Don't know if that would carry over to Oncinus an Oncinus or not. Well it seems like a hate/fear relationship. The minute my Trachys try to patrol my cichlids try to jocky the Trachys back into hiding. I watch them go in tag the Trachy and when the Trachy grunts and turn to face the attacking cichlid the cichlid backs up. The minute the Trachy turns back to try and patrol the cichlid comes at them again.

All this talk of them, I realize how much I personally enjoy my driftwood cats. Why not get the bolt cat and a group of jags and maybe even trachy? Rapps has jags in at a good size already for sure and ime he sends things bigger then he lists them lol. It'd be a sight to see a group of dw cats out and about at feeding and dawn. Especially jags. Only thing you will have to watch is the cichlids aggression towards them I'd think.
Lol, it was the same with me. I never realized how much I enjoyed my Driftwood Cats till I wound up writing about them here.
 
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Guys i cant tell you how much im enjoying the info.

One question though im not sure on the juru but am pretty sure i can go more than 30 wide just need to take some more measurments. So im almost set on the bolt and the vulture i have massive ammounts of tilapia because od the polys om assuming the cats will be fine with it ?


The 150 will have to go but will have a 75 that being said would we trust jags with the larger vulture if i can pump the jags up ? Again im fully aware there are no gaurantees in this hobby just best guesses.
 
Guys i cant tell you how much im enjoying the info.

One question though im not sure on the juru but am pretty sure i can go more than 30 wide just need to take some more measurments. So im almost set on the bolt and the vulture i have massive ammounts of tilapia because od the polys om assuming the cats will be fine with it ?


The 150 will have to go but will have a 75 that being said would we trust jags with the larger vulture if i can pump the jags up ? Again im fully aware there are no gaurantees in this hobby just best guesses.
Again man our pleasure. I for one enjoy the passion you bring with your questions and the engagement it brings out in other members. Though in the cat section we already have some great posters like thebiggerthebetter,moe and kno4te. I just have to find a way to steer you toward Crenicichla so we can get that forum some much deserved attention. :D Which coincidentally now is the time as Jeff has some rarely seen and beautiful Pikes in right now.

Cats are usually good with anything offered to them and if not can usually be easily trained to take it. If they eat pellets just stuff some pellets in the tilpaia till they learn to associate the tilapia as food. That's if they don't take it right off.

So you're going to be keeping the cats in the 75 for a little while instead of the 150? I think the jags would be okay with the vulture. It's all about getting the right sizes. Vultures don't have particularly big mouths and they are pretty streamlined meaning my guess is for them to eat a jag they'd have to be significantly bigger. What sizes do you believe you'll be getting the jags and vulture at. It may help make for a more accurate guess of if it'll work or not.
 
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So you're going to be keeping the cats in the 75 for a little while instead of the 150? I think the jags would be okay with the vulture. It's all about getting the right sizes. Vultures don't have particularly big mouths and they are pretty streamlined meaning my guess is for them to eat a jag they'd have to be significantly bigger. What sizes do you believe you'll be getting the jags and vulture at. It may help make for a more accurate guess of if it'll work or not.

Well this is kind of murky. I plan on qt'ing in a 20 gal (40b) busted my qt method is lacking. 2 48 hr treatment of parasite gaurd if the fish is eating and pooping he goes into one of the other tanks. The 150 will be up and running until i square away the new tank. The 75 could hold any trouble makers or undersized fish. So foe the most part they qoukd be in the 150 with the pearsei.

From what im seeing all are around the 4 to 5.5 inch mark. I probably wont be able to get the jags as soon as i would like but the bolt and vulture i would like to order back to back after i return from vacation next week. Figured i would get one in qt then once its out order the next one.
 
Ok yup this would definitely ruin my marital bliss....Screenshot_20170616-115132.png Screenshot_20170616-115100.png Screenshot_20170616-115031.png
 
if your gonna get the jags get them before you get the vulture. The bolt won't be able to eat anyone so go ahead and purchase that, but you don't want the vulture who grows fast to out grow the slow growing jags by to much.

You may be able to get a deal from Jeff if you throw the idea out there as he's had the jags for quite some time.
 
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