Central cichlids with nitrate

[Stanzzzz7]

Well you do now. I was wondering what the local importers, LFS, etc do - it didn't seem that plausible to me that they all ran RO systems, for all of their bread & butter species, which is what most cichlids would fall under. And now you also have Stan confirming that for you - which would be gold in my books. Stanzzzz7

Also, on a UK forum in the past I recall one of the moderators explaining that nitrate readings in UK tap water, are not taken using the same method as in the USA, and that 10 ppm US, is actually the same as approx 42 ppm UK. You might want to look into that as well.

Thanks Neil, I'll take that compliment from you sir.

 

[RD.]

I believe many aquarists have a somewhat exaggerated expectation of what a few Pothos plants, (or other terrestrial species) have the ability remove in the nitrate department. If a few large Pothos plants remove more than a 10th of a part per million I'd be surprised.

Agreed. Unless one is growing a jungle out of their tank, a few plants are not going to achieve much in the way of nitrate reduction.

 

[Tripping Willow 91]

I missed this part of the question- If you do 50/50 you don't need to add anything as the 50% tap water should have enough buffering capacity itself. For most of these fish 20 nitrate should be the ceiling, highest point before WC, but many of us keep it lower than that.

Thanks for this, there's an RO station near where I work so this wouldn't be to much hassle an

Thanks for the tag.
I'm going to be a little controversial here and say I would not worry about nitrate to much as long as it does not exceed 40ppm.
The fish you want to keep for the most part are tough cookies. Just keep conditions stable and stay away from wild caught fish and you will be fine. My preference is to not mix and match fish to much and give room for natural behaviour. A harem of sajica, 1 male and 3 /4 females with a group of swordtails would make for a nice c/a tank.
Due to your nitrate issue I would avoid tetras and stick with livebeares as all the other water chemistry results match their needs perfectly.
Best of luck.

Thank you very much for your response and it's a response that I'm happy to hear ?. I was worried this cichlid venture was gonna be more hassle than I'm coming away from with my high tech tank. There is so much different advice regarding nitrates that I'm not sure what to trust. With my planted tank I was often on the ukaps forum and many on there seemed to believe high inorganic nitrates are nothing to worry about, they'd happily add extra nitrates to tap water that's already reading 50ppm and wouldn't worry if their nitrates were reading over 80, with the thinking being that inorganic nitrates alone are not harmful until they're in the hundreds. There was also the low nitrate club which I tended to stay in, not through research but just to be safe. Regarding your stocking suggestion, I actually really like this idea and have always liked the idea of a biotype set up. I know little to nothing about cichlids but I was under the impression that a breeding pair of sajica in a tank of 4feet would not tolerate other cichlids, is this not the case then? If it's a fairly safe bet that there shouldn't be too much drama then your harem suggestion will likely be the way I go and I think the wild type green swordtails would be a perfect dither. One thing with the swords and keeping male and female sajica, am I going to end up with loads of fry/juveniles to rehome or would the vast majority not likely survive?

 

[Tripping Willow 91]

I missed this part of the question- If you do 50/50 you don't need to add anything as the 50% tap water should have enough buffering capacity itself. For most of these fish 20 nitrate should be the ceiling, highest point before WC, but many of us keep it lower than that.

Thanks for this, there's an RO station near where I work so this wouldn't be to much hassle an

I didn't realise earlier in the thread that you're from blighty! I'm just up the road in Lancashire! Looking at your area of Bedfordshire you are indeed cursed with abysmal water, one of the worse in the UK!

At this point I'll tag Stanzzzz7 . He's a top cichlid guy and he's a little closer to you around the Midlands area. He'll undoubtedly add value to this conversation. He only pops on once in a while though, but he'll reply when he gets my tag.

Nice to see fellow Englishman are active on this forum. Thanks for tagging others to help me out, much appreciated

 

[Tripping Willow 91]

Well you do now.

? Thanks you all seem like a great bunch of guys here

Also, on a UK forum in the past I recall one of the moderators explaining that nitrate readings in UK tap water, are not taken using the same method as in the USA, and that 10 ppm US, is actually the same as approx 42 ppm UK. You might want to look into that as well.

That's interesting, I will have a look into this

 

[Deadeye]

Thanks for this, there's an RO station near where I work so this wouldn't be to much hassle an
Thank you very much for your response and it's a response that I'm happy to hear ?. I was worried this cichlid venture was gonna be more hassle than I'm coming away from with my high tech tank. There is so much different advice regarding nitrates that I'm not sure what to trust. With my planted tank I was often on the ukaps forum and many on there seemed to believe high inorganic nitrates are nothing to worry about, they'd happily add extra nitrates to tap water that's already reading 50ppm and wouldn't worry if their nitrates were reading over 80, with the thinking being that inorganic nitrates alone are not harmful until they're in the hundreds. There was also the low nitrate club which I tended to stay in, not through research but just to be safe. Regarding your stocking suggestion, I actually really like this idea and have always liked the idea of a biotype set up. I know little to nothing about cichlids but I was under the impression that a breeding pair of sajica in a tank of 4feet would not tolerate other cichlids, is this not the case then? If it's a fairly safe bet that there shouldn't be too much drama then your harem suggestion will likely be the way I go and I think the wild type green swordtails would be a perfect dither. One thing with the swords and keeping male and female sajica, am I going to end up with loads of fry/juveniles to rehome or would the vast majority not likely survive?

Most swordtail fry would be eaten by the cichlids.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Thanks for this, there's an RO station near where I work so this wouldn't be to much hassle an
Thank you very much for your response and it's a response that I'm happy to hear ?. I was worried this cichlid venture was gonna be more hassle than I'm coming away from with my high tech tank. There is so much different advice regarding nitrates that I'm not sure what to trust. With my planted tank I was often on the ukaps forum and many on there seemed to believe high inorganic nitrates are nothing to worry about, they'd happily add extra nitrates to tap water that's already reading 50ppm and wouldn't worry if their nitrates were reading over 80, with the thinking being that inorganic nitrates alone are not harmful until they're in the hundreds. There was also the low nitrate club which I tended to stay in, not through research but just to be safe. Regarding your stocking suggestion, I actually really like this idea and have always liked the idea of a biotype set up. I know little to nothing about cichlids but I was under the impression that a breeding pair of sajica in a tank of 4feet would not tolerate other cichlids, is this not the case then? If it's a fairly safe bet that there shouldn't be too much drama then your harem suggestion will likely be the way I go and I think the wild type green swordtails would be a perfect dither. One thing with the swords and keeping male and female sajica, am I going to end up with loads of fry/juveniles to rehome or would the vast majority not likely survive?

I would not be concerned about becoming overpopulated with livebeares. Most if not all would be eaten by the cichlids or the parent livebeares themselves.
As far as stocking cichlids, personally I've always had good results with harems. Having said that cichlid keeping is a little bit hit and miss when it comes to stocking. All we can really go on are probable outcomes and hope for the best.
I think in a suitably furnished tank 1 male and 3 females stands a decent chance of working out OK. It means not just one female is constantly hounded for breeding.
However there are other c/a cichlids that would stand an even better chance of working as a small group or harem.
Thorichthys are a favourite of mine that do well in groups also are the rainbow cichlids a, multispinosa. Probably the most peaceful of the c/a cichlids in my experience.
Harmony in a fish tank is the desired goal but you do need to accept the possibility of a little trail and error despite any good advice you follow.
Don't let that put you off, they are well worth the effort.

 

[Tripping Willow 91]

I would not be concerned about becoming overpopulated with livebeares. Most if not all would be eaten by the cichlids or the parent livebeares themselves.
As far as stocking cichlids, personally I've always had good results with harems. Having said that cichlid keeping is a little bit hit and miss when it comes to stocking. All we can really go on are probable outcomes and hope for the best.
I think in a suitably furnished tank 1 male and 3 females stands a decent chance of working out OK. It means not just one female is constantly hounded for breeding.
However there are other c/a cichlids that would stand an even better chance of working as a small group or harem.
Thorichthys are a favourite of mine that do well in groups also are the rainbow cichlids a, multispinosa. Probably the most peaceful of the c/a cichlids in my experience.
Harmony in a fish tank is the desired goal but you do need to accept the possibility of a little trail and error despite any good advice you follow.
Don't let that put you off, they are well worth the effort.

Thanks for the reply, what about the sajica fry, I guess they'd be constantly breeding, would the majority be eaten? I assume they'd be quite easy to sell or give away if a lot survived. I have read a few posts where male sajica get very aggressive when breeding and have killed larger cichlids so I'd assumed that it was a no go but I suppose it's usually the horror stories and not success stories people post. I read thorichthys and rainbows are supposed to be pretty good for keeping in groups so this could still be an option for me, how many do you think I could house if I went with one of these over the sajica. I think if I went with rainbows it would open up another option for me of not having to upgrade and keeping them in my current tank 100x30x40(LxWxHcm) 120litres would this be ok for a pair or a trio 1m2f, I guess this tank would be too small for sajica or thorichthys? I'm definitely not gonna be put by a little aggression and territory wars, I'm looking forward to having some more aggressive fish, even if I am looking at some of the most peaceful central American cichlids

 

[Deadeye]

They would let much of the fry survive, but would kill off others (fry will kill each other too), and slow does breeding when they see the tank is overpopulated (too much competition).

 

[Tripping Willow 91]

They would let much of the fry survive, but would kill off others (fry will kill each other too), and slow does breeding when they see the tank is overpopulated (too much competition).

Thanks for this ?