ceramic rings

[jlnguyen74]

OK everyone, its the 2minute warning 4th qtr down 7pts on the 1yard line, it's 3rd & goal.

in this scenario I "believe" that every any pro football team will score a TD the majority of the time.

so goes with bio media. majority of the time it is useful - "required or needed" ? well that Q? can be answered I'm sure by others who have experience w/o bio-media fancy smancy ceramic rings.

in fact, I will add my experience of the good ole days of days gone by - I remember buying a set up & the filter came with only filter floss & carbon. back then that was all that was needed for filtration to get up & running. how about those corner in the tank filter boxes that work fine with guppy goldfish tetra etc. small tanks? no bio-media special rings needed there.

in fact, back then in my 10 gal tank (which today I will admit was overstocked) I have to presume that all the natual processes were working fine since all I had was a cheapo part of package deal HOB filter with filter floss (that got dirty plenty fast) & carbon (which was used religiously). later on did the same with a 15gal & then a 20gal. this mind you was back in the 70's! didn't know about bio-media or if I did wouldn't have been inclined to buy em.

so to continue - I would get lazy & not change the filtger floss for days on end, like months. fish did fine. actually none died for quite a long time. even when I added more fish (& no QT accept acclimating the bagged fish) the worst that happened was I got Ich.

& never did frequent w/c's. when I did a w/c, I would stir up the gravel with a very thin long tube (I think it was a suction tube) which then I proceeded to ("siphon out the water" - actually scooped cups of water out) so I could refill (& get this! with aged water! not conditioned by Prime or any other product!).

so in my long ago naive lack of knowledge lazy days of fishkeeping, I did just fine w/o the special bio-media rings/spheres/jagged glass, etc. cuz guess wHere it all was? on the glass, on the filter tube, the heater/thermometer, decoration & in the filter itself (what with the thick filter floss having a nice layer of slime).

so for both sides of this debate - use of ceramic rings can't possibly hurt the OP, so any size would be fine to use. if the OP chose not to use, well I don't think (uh oh, opinion coming! no scientific foundation to base it on - except my limited experience & science project) - I don't think it is really needed.

there I said it & you can't make me take it back! no backzies!!

Your good ol' day sounds just like mine! Thank you for your input!

 

[jlnguyen74]

Sure thing Bob, as I stated before you enter these threads to cause nothing but trouble. Heck you won't even lay claim to which side of this debate you truly believe(though it's not hard to find out). You will only argue against anything I post.

As to the OPs questions i answered the one that I though he was unclear on. This was well after the "bio media needed" had started.

Did you look in the mirror before you posted? Or was that for your other personality, Bob? As for the "lay claim to which side..." I'm not interested in feeding a junkie! And if you believe you answered the OP question that he was unclear, don't flatter yourself! You paid no attention to the OP questions

are you trying to say that i dont need the ceramic rings?

You have no clue, or bother to ask on what's his intention for the ceramic rings

...i am plannin to have filter pad then bioballs then ceramic rings...

You just can't wait to jump down someone's throat on whether bio-media is needed!

 

[justin guest]

Hi spotted gar

If you want some more information on biofilter materials then I´ve posted my experiences in the following thread;

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158808

Just for the record a biofilter isn´t always necessary as some people have been stating here, but when running tanks with lots of fish they can help stabilise your water quality. There is no right answer to the question of whether you need a biofilter or not. it depends on the situation. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

j<><

 

[Bderick67]

You have no clue, or bother to ask on what's his intention for the ceramic rings

Well what do you think he is going to do with them, eat them like popcorn

You just can't wait to jump down someone's throat on whether bio-media is needed!

Oh, your right here. I have my beliefs and I will debate/argue/share them when ever I feel the need to

 

[brianp]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have the distinct impression that many individuals are, in fact, using "biomedia" or media with enhanced surface area to augment their gravel, rocks and sunken pirate ships, but can't seem to acknowledge this. For example, the sponge and polyester inserts used in hob filters as well as the activated carbon beds all provide enhanced surface area for bacterial colonization...and more importantly...are placed directly in the path of the moving water. This is precisely the intended role of "biomedia".

 

[Toby_H]

I think one thing that makes this conversation difficult is&#8230;
&#12288;
If I do not need any &#8220;bio media&#8221; for a specific tank&#8230; but I use 14 lbs of it&#8230; The tank will work just fine&#8230;

Therefore people who use bio media when they do not need it, report that they use it and everything is fine, so they must need it&#8230;
&#12288;
It requires either starting a tank without it, or logically removing it, to see if it&#8217;s really needed. Since the few people I&#8217;ve spoken with who have experimented with reducing it or not suing it from the beginning, have all very consistently reported it&#8217;s not needed&#8230; Then accepting that the hobby existed for many years before bio media was ever dreamed up, and the same bacterial process worked just fine&#8230;
&#12288;
&#8230;Ya have to give us some credit that we might be on to something&#8230;
&#12288;
I accept this is seems to be in conflict with the general perspective, so I don&#8217;t expect people to just accept the concept and start throwing away their bio media. But I do wish people would be rational in their evaluation and give this experience the credit it deserves&#8230; and stop telling people they need to use bio media&#8230;
&#12288;
Instead, explain the reality to people and let them make the decision for themselves&#8230; If you are the type to assume people are to stupid to understand the truth and feel you need to spoon feed them your manipulated version of the truth (aka, misinformation or a lie)&#8230; I suggest you get out of fish keeping and into politics&#8230;

 

[brianp]

I think one thing that makes this conversation difficult is&#8230;
&#12288;
If I do not need any &#8220;bio media&#8221; for a specific tank&#8230; but I use 14 lbs of it&#8230; The tank will work just fine&#8230;

Therefore people who use bio media when they do not need it, report that they use it and everything is fine, so they must need it&#8230;
&#12288;
It requires either starting a tank without it, or logically removing it, to see if it&#8217;s really needed. Since the few people I&#8217;ve spoken with who have experimented with reducing it or not suing it from the beginning, have all very consistently reported it&#8217;s not needed&#8230; Then accepting that the hobby existed for many years before bio media was ever dreamed up, and the same bacterial process worked just fine&#8230;
&#12288;
&#8230;Ya have to give us some credit that we might be on to something&#8230;
&#12288;
I accept this is seems to be in conflict with the general perspective, so I don&#8217;t expect people to just accept the concept and start throwing away their bio media. But I do wish people would be rational in their evaluation and give this experience the credit it deserves&#8230; and stop telling people they need to use bio media&#8230;
&#12288;
Instead, explain the reality to people and let them make the decision for themselves&#8230; If you are the type to assume people are to stupid to understand the truth and feel you need to spoon feed them your manipulated version of the truth (aka, misinformation or a lie)&#8230; I suggest you get out of fish keeping and into politics&#8230;

The use of the term "biomedia" automatically segregates ceramic rings and other similar particulate types from more mundane things like filter floss, sponge inserts and carbon beds in the minds of the users. In fact, they fail to recognize that they are doing exactly the same thing. Personally, I don't care if they buy ceramic rings or not. However, my guess is that most of the individuals who are claiming that "biomedia" is unnecessary are already using it. Sometimes, these simple facts can go unnoticed. There is no conflict. Rather, just a failure to understand the broader functions of these various materials that they are moving their aquarium water through.

 

[Bderick67]

I know that 14 pounds of bio media sounds like a bit much. But how is it compared to the 100-200 pounds of substrate it would take to fill the 300g? Now suppose this 300g tank is going to be bare bottom and have typical monster stock as commonly seen here on MFK. So the gravel is gone and taking into consideration those that have bare bottom show tanks keep them spotless, all glass surfaces are polished to shine, no bio film growing there.

Now to the filter, we could build a huge sump and dump the 200 pounds of gravel in it, though this is kinda senseless. Maybe a commercial built sump with bio balls, but aren't bioballs media? Then there is a canister filter, lets use seachem's Matrix as a media. Seachem recommends 1 liter per 100g water. So 3 liters or about 6 pounds of media.

Anyway you look at it the 300g described above will need bio media. Whether it be 100-200 pounds of gravel, 5-6 gallons of bioballs or 3 liters(6 pounds) of matrix. or any other bio media of choice.

 

[Toby_H]

The use of the term "biomedia" automatically segregates ceramic rings and other similar particulate types from more mundane things like filter floss, sponge inserts and carbon beds in the minds of the users. In fact, they fail to recognize that they are doing exactly the same thing. Personally, I don't care if they buy ceramic rings or not. However, my guess is that most of the individuals who are claiming that "biomedia" is unnecessary are already using it. Sometimes, these simple facts can go unnoticed. There is no conflict. Rather, just a failure to understand the broader functions of these various materials that they are moving their aquarium water through.

This is EXACTLY the point that I have been arguing for years...

In typical set ups, there is already plenty of stuff in the tank for bacteria to grow on... so "bio media" is not necessary...

I / We are not saying that no surface area is needed... I / we are saying there is already enough without specialized "bio media"... which is the exact same thing you are saying here...

So please do not discredit my argument by suggesting I don't understand this... this is the central point of my argument... Which I have clearly made many many times...

I know that 14 pounds of bio media sounds like a bit much. But how is it compared to the 100-200 pounds of substrate it would take to fill the 300g? Now suppose this 300g tank is going to be bare bottom and have typical monster stock as commonly seen here on MFK. So the gravel is gone and taking into consideration those that have bare bottom show tanks keep them spotless, all glass surfaces are polished to shine, no bio film growing there.

Now to the filter, we could build a huge sump and dump the 200 pounds of gravel in it, though this is kinda senseless. Maybe a commercial built sump with bio balls, but aren't bioballs media? Then there is a canister filter, lets use seachem's Matrix as a media. Seachem recommends 1 liter per 100g water. So 3 liters or about 6 pounds of media.

Anyway you look at it the 300g described above will need bio media. Whether it be 100-200 pounds of gravel, 5-6 gallons of bioballs or 3 liters(6 pounds) of matrix. or any other bio media of choice.

And if you or others argued:

In bare bottomed tanks with no decor, bio media is necessary... I would not offer any differing opinion...

But you don't... you use a very very isolated corner where bio media might be necessary... and use it to justify telling everyone bio media is always necessary...

Or more accurately... you say that since bio media might be necessary in this very small percentage of set ups... everyone should use it or they are taking stupid risks...


The reality is... in typical situations bio media is in no way necessary... and if you start breaking away from the norm it's a good idea to educate yourself about the changes you are making...

 

[brianp]

This is EXACTLY the point that I have been arguing for years...

In typical set ups, there is already plenty of stuff in the tank for bacteria to grow on... so "bio media" is not necessary...

I / We are not saying that no surface area is needed... I / we are saying there is already enough without specialized "bio media"... which is the exact same thing you are saying here...

So please do not discredit my argument by suggesting I don't understand this... this is the central point of my argument... Which I have clearly made many many times...




And if you or others argued:

In bare bottomed tanks with no decor, bio media is necessary... I would not offer any differing opinion...

But you don't... you use a very very isolated corner where bio media might be necessary... and use it to justify telling everyone bio media is always necessary...

Or more accurately... you say that since bio media might be necessary in this very small percentage of set ups... everyone should use it or they are taking stupid risks...


The reality is... in typical situations bio media is in no way necessary... and if you start breaking away from the norm it's a good idea to educate yourself about the changes you are making...

OK, NC. You are a formidable debater and I was not attempting to trivialize your commentary...even though, I can see where it sounds that way.

BTW, I wanted to ask you...does Greektown still exist downtown on Monroe Street?