ceramic rings
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. It's one of the few places to go in the city
nothing like people hijacking a thread and running with it. Unless you are a super duper leet fishkeeper OP.. my oppinion is "better to have and not need, then need 'n not have." I'de rather be running to much filtration on a tank then not enough. and that includes offering areas for bio-media and bacterial colony room.The way I feel is that if I listen to someone online and stop running biomedia because they say it's not necessary, the only person who's going to be around in the event of a crash of the biological filter and resulting ammonia spike is me. That person won't be around to fix the problem. I'll run all the biomedia I want. It's certainly not hurting anything.
justonemoretank;3626889; said:
lol while this is definitely true; I think the thing that brianp and nc_nutcase are trying to make are actually the same one, though phrased different ways.
for me as I read nc_nutcase is separating the terms biomedia out to mean specific type of expensive media sold by filter companies as "the end all be all of filter media." he is instead stating that all you need is adequate surface area for the bb to grow on which is an undebatable fact of the hobby.
brianp is not looking at biomedia as the same term and is thus referring to bio media as any media that bb grow on which reinforces nc_nutcases earlier argument.
The problem is "biomedia" is so vague a term because it was coined by a marketing company for a filter company so that they could sell more of their expensive media. in reality there's nothing bio about their media. it's just another surface for bb to grow on no different than anything else we use in the hobby. so I think even using the term biomedia is setting up novice readers for failure.
no one's stating that they run a tank without anywhere for bb to grow, simply that the term biomedia has been thrown around like a gospel of filter media when it's nothing more than incresing the surface are of the filter to allow more bb to grow in a smaller area.
based on this I think all 8 pages of this are forum members failure to communicate properly, they're all thinking similar things but using terms in different ways. I'd say it's time to take a step back and really think about what you're saying.
and for curiosity's sake, how do each of you define biomedia?
is it 1. The ceramic rungs sold by fluval and other filter media companies?
2. a media with an increased surface are per square inch?
3. some magic stuff that zaps all the bad things of your tank into pixie dust?
4. ?????
I often use the term "bio media" in quotes. This is because I am not usign it as a term that makes sense to me, I am using it as a term marketed by others and I am using their term...
So when I say "Bio Media" I am talking abotu media marketed by manufacturers or hobbyists with the sole purpose of housing bacteria. This would include ceramic rings, sintered glass rings, any inert porous nuggets, pot scrubbies, army men, etc, etc, etc...
I am discouraged when I read the fanatical commitment that newer hobbyists common show to the use of "bio media". My parents have been keeping fish tanks since the 60s and introduced me to the hobby in the early 80s. While back then "new tank syndrom" was difficult to overcome as we didn't understand the basic cycling principals we understand today, mature tanks didn't have a problem sustaining bacterial colonies that kept ammonia/nitrite at zero despite gross overstocking...
and that was before "bio media" had been "invented" (or made up)...
How would you see it if after driving cars for years and years without a problem... suddenly some company convinced people that if you didn't use their magic steering wheel cover that they wouldn't be able to control the steering... despite the fact you had been doing so for many years, and the steering process hadn't changed...
So when I say "Bio Media" I am talking abotu media marketed by manufacturers or hobbyists with the sole purpose of housing bacteria. This would include ceramic rings, sintered glass rings, any inert porous nuggets, pot scrubbies, army men, etc, etc, etc...
I am discouraged when I read the fanatical commitment that newer hobbyists common show to the use of "bio media". My parents have been keeping fish tanks since the 60s and introduced me to the hobby in the early 80s. While back then "new tank syndrom" was difficult to overcome as we didn't understand the basic cycling principals we understand today, mature tanks didn't have a problem sustaining bacterial colonies that kept ammonia/nitrite at zero despite gross overstocking...
and that was before "bio media" had been "invented" (or made up)...
How would you see it if after driving cars for years and years without a problem... suddenly some company convinced people that if you didn't use their magic steering wheel cover that they wouldn't be able to control the steering... despite the fact you had been doing so for many years, and the steering process hadn't changed...
nc_nutcase;3626607; said:
Well now that I finally have you accepting that there are cases where bio media is necessary. I'll try to expand that similar tanks with very little decor or substrate will also need to have bio media. You state that in typical situations bio media is not needed, right? I believe my 150g is a good example of a typical tank here on MFK
Here's what I will do though. I will reduce the biomedia in my 150g to the point that it cannot process ammonia(though that may never happen if your beliefs are true).
I would like your input here on how this is to be done. The tank has little decor, only three large rocks that make a cave. The substrate is about 1" deep and is fluorite. Only the front and side glass is cleaned the back glass has a bit of algae.
The stock is rather heavy, but typical for MFK. Includes the following 27" tire track eel, 11" Argentia, 11 red devil, 8" red devil, 4X 9-10" suncats, 6" lyonsi, 5X 4" red bay snooks, 4" convict, 2x 5" blue botia and a couple of 2.5" bristlenose plecos
Filtration is 2 rena XP3 canisters each have about 2.5 liters of bio media in them and two AC110s each have about a 1/2 liter of bio media. The tank receives a single 50% w/c weekly and a gravel vac every other week. The sponges in the Ac110s are washed weekly with hot tap water until clean. The renas are cleaned every other month, but this is irrelevant since both will be eventually removed from the tank.
I will be removing one of the rena canisters later today, also will get a pic of the tank. After getting your input I will start a thread on this.
I go sick of reading at post 56.
I just want to add this non techy fact.
Lets pretend that you have two setups.
Setup 1:
1 tank with no bio media, but its perfectly filtered.
Setup 2:
1 tank with bio media, it is also perfectly filtered.
The scenario:
You tank gets a leak at the bottom, you notice it move your fish to a temp holding spot, drain the tank. You seal the tank wait 24 hours for the silicone to cure.
Now in that 24 hours the tank with no bio media has lost all its bb that is on the glass and on the decoration. Now if you happen to have enough room in the temp storage place that you put the fish you can also keep all the substrate if you have substrate, and keep most of the bb in that. So the bad thing here is this repair if you happen to not have any substrate or don't have room to store it with the fish you have just lost every drop of the bacteria.
The tank with the bio media can have the bio media stored with the fish, and you loose no bacteria.
Scenario 2.
You have a poor sick fish, aww poor guy, but no problem you have another tank or other holding box ready to make him feel all better. Here again You can take some of the bio media and put it in the sick tank so he doesn't swim in junk. If you have no bio media how do you plan on moving it over to the sick tank? if you don't have any substrate?
So I am saying that is bio media need maybe not, is it better probably not, but is it good to have in certain cases? yes it is.
I just want to add this non techy fact.
Lets pretend that you have two setups.
Setup 1:
1 tank with no bio media, but its perfectly filtered.
Setup 2:
1 tank with bio media, it is also perfectly filtered.
The scenario:
You tank gets a leak at the bottom, you notice it move your fish to a temp holding spot, drain the tank. You seal the tank wait 24 hours for the silicone to cure.
Now in that 24 hours the tank with no bio media has lost all its bb that is on the glass and on the decoration. Now if you happen to have enough room in the temp storage place that you put the fish you can also keep all the substrate if you have substrate, and keep most of the bb in that. So the bad thing here is this repair if you happen to not have any substrate or don't have room to store it with the fish you have just lost every drop of the bacteria.
The tank with the bio media can have the bio media stored with the fish, and you loose no bacteria.
Scenario 2.
You have a poor sick fish, aww poor guy, but no problem you have another tank or other holding box ready to make him feel all better. Here again You can take some of the bio media and put it in the sick tank so he doesn't swim in junk. If you have no bio media how do you plan on moving it over to the sick tank? if you don't have any substrate?
So I am saying that is bio media need maybe not, is it better probably not, but is it good to have in certain cases? yes it is.
Yogurt_21 hit the nail squarely on the head, in my opinion. brianp & nc_nutcase are adding valued opinions in their arguments and they are also pointing us in the direction to do some research on our own to determine what we may or may not need for our tanks. There is no one size fits all solution.
Biological filtration and 'bio-media' are terms that are commonly used interchangeably and that is where all the arguments seem to come from. It would be so much easier if we would actually read & understand what comments are being posted as this would make it a more fruitful discussion.
There are a lot of members here that I have come to depend on for valuable information regarding this hobby. A few have posted in this thread but it is so disheartening when the backbiting & sarcastic remarks start to derail a very simple question that began this thread.
Biological filtration and 'bio-media' are terms that are commonly used interchangeably and that is where all the arguments seem to come from. It would be so much easier if we would actually read & understand what comments are being posted as this would make it a more fruitful discussion.
There are a lot of members here that I have come to depend on for valuable information regarding this hobby. A few have posted in this thread but it is so disheartening when the backbiting & sarcastic remarks start to derail a very simple question that began this thread.
An important factor of this discussion is, the people who manufacture ceramic rings want you to believe that their product is *necessary* for your fish to survive and thrive, and thus you pay them whatever fee they decide their rings are worth.
What I believe is true however is, virtually anything with high surface area to volume ratio will work as a place for beneficial bacteria to grow. I use mountain dew bottle caps, because I have them in great abundance.
(Warning, made up numbers for the sake of discussion below)
if 1 ceramic ring grew 1 ounce of bacteria, 1 mountain dew cap might only grow 1/2 ounce of bacteria. But, since mountain dew bottle caps are free and I have a ton of them at my house, I can use twice as many and have the same amount of bacteria and not have spent $16 per liter on perfectly engineered ceramic rings.
What I believe is true however is, virtually anything with high surface area to volume ratio will work as a place for beneficial bacteria to grow. I use mountain dew bottle caps, because I have them in great abundance.
(Warning, made up numbers for the sake of discussion below)
if 1 ceramic ring grew 1 ounce of bacteria, 1 mountain dew cap might only grow 1/2 ounce of bacteria. But, since mountain dew bottle caps are free and I have a ton of them at my house, I can use twice as many and have the same amount of bacteria and not have spent $16 per liter on perfectly engineered ceramic rings.
