cichlid aggression scale

[D-Train]

Well seeing as this is not a hybrid forum hybrids should not be included, and I do think op has an idea, but 10 degrees is not enough.

As much as it depends on individual fish on a small scale, on a large scale it does not. On a larger scale specific species of fishes will show similar behavioral traits.


Although it is a good idea, how do you determine how mean a fish is, especially on a number scale? Do you factor in size of fish, size of tank, or stock list? I'm sure a Dovii in a PROPER tank where it is given a proportionate amount of territory in comparison to smaller species will show significantly less aggression than one where it feels as though it's territory is not large enough. Is a fish that requires more territory neccessarily a meaner fish than one that doesn't need as much space?

 

[bbortko]

Well seeing as this is not a hybrid forum hybrids should not be included, and I do think op has an idea, but 10 degrees is not enough.

As much as it depends on individual fish on a small scale, on a large scale it does not. On a larger scale specific species of fishes will show similar behavioral traits.


Although it is a good idea, how do you determine how mean a fish is, especially on a number scale? Do you factor in size of fish, size of tank, or stock list? I'm sure a Dovii in a PROPER tank where it is given a proportionate amount of territory in comparison to smaller species will show significantly less aggression than one where it feels as though it's territory is not large enough. Is a fish that requires more territory neccessarily a meaner fish than one that doesn't need as much space?

Ability to cause damage would have to be taken into consideration, kribs can be very aggressive but a relatively harmless which would cause them to rank low.

As far as territory, I feel that if you can keep 6 10" fish in a 125g tank with 5-8gph fitration and your parameters don't suffer, these fish would qualify for an low to mid ranking. When you have to start thinning the herd due to attitude and not water quality you have more aggressive fish.

 

[BadFishPa]

Scale of fish may vary for whatever reason, but it will give newer members/fishkeepers ideas of possibly what not to tank together..Clearly a Dovi shouldent be with a Geo and such,so it could still be helpfull even if not completely accurate at times IMO...

 

[bbortko]

Scale of fish may vary for whatever reason, but it will give newer members/fishkeepers ideas of possibly what not to tank together..Clearly a Dovi shouldent be with a Geo and such,so it could still be helpfull even if not completely accurate at times IMO...

This is exactly what I am trying to accomplish. There are very few certains when dealing with any living creature but for the most part you can get a ballpark idea of what a typical specimen will bring to the table. Everyonce in a while you might get the rogue severum, but 9 out of 10 times you'll get the what is deemed typical.

 

[elting44]

I feel that if you can keep 6 10" fish in a 125g tank with 5-8gph fitration and your parameters don't suffer, these fish would qualify for an low to mid ranking. When you have to start thinning the herd due to attitude and not water quality you have more aggressive fish.

Here is the problem as I see it:

Let’s say you have 10 125gallon tanks. Each tank has the same 6 species of 10" CA/SA Cichlids. In tank #3 all 6 fish might live together with no conflict, but in tank #8, one or two fish might be very agro and kill everything they see. Each tank might end up with a different aggression hierarchy due to different individual temperaments.

If a person were to observe tank #8 in the above mentioned scenario, they may become biased and think that whichever species were the most aggressive in that case are generally more aggressive than the other species, which may or not be the case.

The point is, this is going to skew your data. Granted with a large enough sample there will most likely a pattern and you could scale it and come up with a decent rating for each species. I just don’t think that is going to happen here.

Why bother with a number scale, it doesn't accomplish anything. It’s not like you will be able to say, "Ok it is safe to keep 8s with other 8s" or "anything less than 7 can be together"

I guess you would be able to say, “oh that fish is a 7 on the aggression scale, best be safe and not keep him with any other tankmates”

If that is the case, it seems to me that it would be easier to use relative terms when describing a fish. Describe the fish as being some-what aggressive, moderately aggressive, or very aggressive.

I could be wrong, I respect you for having the ambition to want to standardize aggression, I just don’t know if it is viable

 

[bbortko]

Here is the problem as I see it:

Let’s say you have 10 125gallon tanks. Each tank has the same 6 species of 10" CA/SA Cichlids. In tank #3 all 6 fish might live together with no conflict, but in tank #8, one or two fish might be very agro and kill everything they see. Each tank might end up with a different aggression hierarchy due to different individual temperaments.

If a person were to observe tank #8 in the above mentioned scenario, they may become biased and think that whichever species were the most aggressive in that case are generally more aggressive than the other species, which may or not be the case.

The point is, this is going to skew your data. Granted with a large enough sample there will most likely a pattern and you could scale it and come up with a decent rating for each species. I just don’t think that is going to happen here.

Why bother with a number scale, it doesn't accomplish anything. It’s not like you will be able to say, "Ok it is safe to keep 8s with other 8s" or "anything less than 7 can be together"

I guess you would be able to say, “oh that fish is a 7 on the aggression scale, best be safe and not keep him with any other tankmates”

If that is the case, it seems to me that it would be easier to use relative terms when describing a fish. Describe the fish as being some-what aggressive, moderately aggressive, or very aggressive.

I could be wrong, I respect you for having the ambition to want to standardize aggression, I just don’t know if it is viable

These are the reasons that I'm trying to get the opinions of others and as the data accumulates I would begin to analyze it and put something together.

The main reason I'd like a scale is that someone who keeps parachromis and amphs may describe a gt as being less aggressive and try putting one geos or ebjd. If the scale existed one would have a better idea of how less aggressive.

 

[CClump]

I have a GT JD Jag convicts (2 pair) a butti and parrot in the same tank
the only really agressive fish are the cons because they have fry and the parrot will get beat on a little. other than that none of these fish are all that agressive in my opinion. they arent charging the glass like ive seen midas and dovii do.
Also my FH in a diff tank is pretty mellow, maybe theres just xanax in my water here?