Clown Loach's.....Should I just give up?

[beeline]

clowns are dead, i have one very last one i a QT right now. all the others died.

during the 2 or so weeks that i had noticed and started treating the whitespot i was doing a 50% water change every other day.

Okay, when you buy loaches there is almost a guarantee that they will get whitespot unless the petsore's tanks and yours are 100% perfect. They are EXTREMELY susceptible to whitespot. Even then, they tend to stress a lot when transported and get ich. Make sure that the fish look healthy in the store before you decide to buy them. Shop around - don't buy the first ones you see and never buy loaches that are in a overcrowded tank. Don't buy loaches that were in the store for less than a week. Rather pay for them upfront and ask the store to keep them for you. That way they won't be moved into a new home twice in one week. That can be very stressfull for the fish. You will also be able to see whether the fish are still healthy by the time you go pick them up.

The best precautions you can take before you buy loaches are the following:
1. Vacuum your gravel thoroughly and do a 50% water change 2 days before you buy your loaches.
2. Turn your tank temperature up to about 30 degrees Celsius (I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit) and also aerate the tank well because high temperature lowers O2 levels in the water.
3. Use a complete water test kit and test ALL of your water parameters. They must all be at an acceptable level.
4. Treat for whitespot as a precaution (meaning put anti-ich medicine in the tank before you buy the fish).
5. Turn the tank light off before you put the bag with the fish in the water, this helps them to relax more because it's dark.
6. When you put the bag with the fish in the tank, let the fish acclimatize for 20-30 minutes then add some of YOUR tank water to the bag and leave them in there for a further 5-10 minutes.
7. Catch the fish out of the bag with a net. DO NOT add the water that was in the bag to your tank, as it might have diseases in it.

After a few days you can turn the temperature down to normal if your loaches seem fine. Keep using the medication for about 2 weeks.
Do 40-50% water changes every week.
Vacuum your gravel at least twice a month.
When you clean your filter, wash the sponge in some tank water in a bucket. Do not use tapwater because it kills the filter bacteria.

Also, when you do water changes and there are loaches in your tank, try to get the new water's temperature the same as the water in the tank. Rapid chilling of water can also cause loaches or other fish for that matter to get whitespot. Always use water conditioner when you change your water and if you can find some herbal anti-stress meds you can add a little to the tank after water changes. That might also help.

This is how I did it, after I lost my first batch of loaches I freaked out and read as much as I could about loaches and how to introduce them to a new tank. My loaches also eat flakes, bloodworms and daphnia. So try some of that as well.

It sucks that you have to start over again dude, but hopefully this time you will get it right. Good luck!

P.S. If you ever need more loach advice, talk to Ewurm - he knows a lot about loaches.

 

[Zeppelin3k]

wurm- all of my 25 loachs were 4+ inches. I AM DONE WITH CLOWNS FOR GOOD! After loosing nearly a grand to ****ing fish i said, "game over".

beeline- Thanks for the info, i did alot of that stuff but still couldnt get it right. its just not ment to be, the loachs cant survive for some reason that will NEVER be determined or can ever work out in my tank. i am convinced

I bought these loachs from 2 members of mfk, 15 4-5" loachs from jlnguyen74 and 8 6-7" from L AQUATICS, first off I WOULD NEVER PURCHASE ANYTHING EVER AGAIN FROM L AQUATICS, GUY IS A ****ING SCAM ARTIST AND SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE SITE. but thats another story.
the fish seemed very healthy, and i had the 15 4-5"ers a couple days before i got the bigger ones from L. All seemed fine, but i guess it was never ment to be. i have also tryed loachs from TFD and 4-5 of my local pet shops, nothing works, i do have 3 in a 30 gallon that i am giving to a buddy though, i cant even look at them anymore and my fish keeping intrest faded, i rarly come on mfk, partially because of all of the noobs and their retarted posts, and also because i think i am done and its time for bigger and better things. only time will tell, but NO MORE CLOWN LOACHS! yoyos are fine

 

[JD_MAN]

That sucks man. You shouldn't let fish keeping consume your life. It's a hobby, and should be enjoyable and relaxing. Good luck with whatever you choose to do...don't be a complete stranger to MFK.

 

[Lupin]

Zep, you have yoyos? They're cool. Sorry to hear about your clown loach experience.

 

[fsc46]

1st)
4. Treat for whitespot as a precaution (meaning put anti-ich medicine in the tank before you buy the fish).

2nd)
6. When you put the bag with the fish in the tank, let the fish acclimatize for 20-30 minutes then add some of YOUR tank water to the bag and leave them in there for a further 5-10 minutes.

I agree with most of what you said, but have some concerns about the 2 points above.

1) Most ich meds will kill the good bacteria in your filter and cause ammonia spikes/issues. I would use aquarium salt (epsom salt aka magnesium sulfate) instead of meds, in combo with a higher water temp.

2) I've also had issues with adding tank water into the bag water. If there is ammonia in the bag and if your tank water has high ph (like me), it with make the water toxic to the fish. I lost a few from the fish store that way.

If by meds you meant something else, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

The biggest problem I think is being patient enough to follow each step that you listed. It's not hard to follow, and anyone can do it but most people cut corners and then say they followed instructions to a T. I'm not criticizing anyone here but IME that's usually what happens. I know I cut corners and my loaches paid the price. I tried again after following some good advice and now I have 2 that have grown in my tank and have never had ich.

 

[beeline]

I agree with most of what you said, but have some concerns about the 2 points above.

1) Most ich meds will kill the good bacteria in your filter and cause ammonia spikes/issues. I would use aquarium salt (epsom salt aka magnesium sulfate) instead of meds, in combo with a higher water temp.

2) I've also had issues with adding tank water into the bag water. If there is ammonia in the bag and if your tank water has high ph (like me), it with make the water toxic to the fish. I lost a few from the fish store that way.

If by meds you meant something else, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

The biggest problem I think is being patient enough to follow each step that you listed. It's not hard to follow, and anyone can do it but most people cut corners and then say they followed instructions to a T. I'm not criticizing anyone here but IME that's usually what happens. I know I cut corners and my loaches paid the price. I tried again after following some good advice and now I have 2 that have grown in my tank and have never had ich.

Oops. With meds I meant herbal meds. I don't put any artificial cr*p in my tank. I have a Black Ghost and Synodontis Cat and they are very sensitive to malachite green that's in the normal Ich meds. Natural meds are available, you just have to look for them. I have never had a problem with acclimatizing fish, coz I test my tank's ph before I buy the fish. I don't do impulse buying. But thanks for the criticism. The steps I mentioned do seem complicated, but they are actually common sense. Loaches need a lot more care than other fish for some reason, but if you can keep them healthy then they are the coolest and most rewarding pets ever, not to mention that it is an great accomplishment.

Zeppelin3k, I am truly sorry that you have had such bad luck man... It doesn't mean that it's your fault. Cheer up, at least there are lots of other fish you can keep besides Clown Loaches. Good luck!

 

[fsc46]

But thanks for the criticism. The steps I mentioned do seem complicated, but they are actually common sense. Loaches need a lot more care than other fish for some reason,.....

Sorry, it wasn't meant as criticism. I was just pointing out some issues that the average fish keeper might run into. I missed a point about adding tank water to the fish bag. If your PH matches or is lower than the LFS's PH, you won't have an issue dripping water into the bag. Mine is around 8.2 and if I add that to 7.2 LFS water it can harm/kill the fish.

The funny this is I had terrible luck with loaches when I started. After following advice similar to the info I posted they survived without a problem.

Even if he doesn't want clown loaches he still needs to treat the tank with higher temps, salt, gravel vaccs, water changes and air bubbles etc to removes the pests from the tank. It's there even if you can't see it.

 

[coolkeith]

This is the saddest thread I've ever read. I know my reply is way to late, but maybe it can help others in the future.


Clown Loaches are not very tolerant of large TDS changes. Getting a TDS meter will probably solve your problems. Drip water changes are a must if your source water doesn't nearly match the tank waters TDS. If you add clowns to a tank with OTS, (Old Tank Syndrom ; 20% water changes every other week will lead to OTS and a high TDS), then the clowns will have osmolarity problems. This will lead to deadly outbreaks of all sorts, especially Ich if it's present in the water.


Treat new clowns for ich in a quarantine tank even if you don't see any any ich spots. If you do see spots, it might already be too late. Various anti ich treatments will work. The treatment needs to be continous and for atleast 2 weeks after the last sign of ich. Flashing or rubbing is a sign of ich even if you don't see any ich spots.

Salt method for treating ich needs to done very carefully. The salt needs to dripped in over the course of a few days and removed over the coarse of a few weeks. This is because Salt raises the TDS tremendously.

The salt dosage for treating ich should be 2 Teaspoons of salt per Gallon of water. A lesser salt content probably won't kill the ich off completely. Clown Loaches can tolerate a prolonged salt bath far better than they can tolerate ich.

I know what they say at LOL about salt. Most of the experts there are my friends, but they are completely wrong IMO. None of them have ever tried a prolonged salt bath like I described, so their theory has no basis. Not many of them own TDS meters either.

Just remember the salt needs to dripped in very slowly (over the coarse of a few days), but removed even slower (over the coarse of a few weeks). If using salt, a TDS meter can give you a great idea of the salt content.

 

[JD_MAN]

This is the saddest thread I've ever read. I know my reply is way to late, but maybe it can help others in the future.


Clown Loaches are not very tolerant of large TDS changes. Getting a TDS meter will probably solve your problems. Drip water changes are a must if your source water doesn't nearly match the tank waters TDS. If you add clowns to a tank with OTS, (Old Tank Syndrom ; 20% water changes every other week will lead to OTS and a high TDS), then the clowns will have osmolarity problems. This will lead to deadly outbreaks of all sorts, especially Ich if it's present in the water.


Treat new clowns for ich in a quarantine tank even if you don't see any any ich spots. If you do see spots, it might already be too late. Various anti ich treatments will work. The treatment needs to be continous and for atleast 2 weeks after the last sign of ich. Flashing or rubbing is a sign of ich even if you don't see any ich spots.

Salt method for treating ich needs to done very carefully. The salt needs to dripped in over the course of a few days and removed over the coarse of a few weeks. This is because Salt raises the TDS tremendously.

The salt dosage for treating ich should be 2 Teaspoons of salt per Gallon of water. A lesser salt content probably won't kill the ich off completely. Clown Loaches can tolerate a prolonged salt bath far better than they can tolerate ich.

I know what they say at LOL about salt. Most of the experts there are my friends, but they are completely wrong IMO. None of them have ever tried a prolonged salt bath like I described, so their theory has no basis. Not many of them own TDS meters either.

Just remember the salt needs to dripped in very slowly (over the coarse of a few days), but removed even slower (over the coarse of a few weeks). If using salt, a TDS meter can give you a great idea of the salt content.

I do agree with using salt as the best treatment for ich on clown loaches. I would never want to add any other chemicals just for ich. I have some different methods on how I keep my clowns...lol...but have used salt when needed.

 

[killerfish]

I do agree with using salt as the best treatment for ich on clown loaches. I would never want to add any other chemicals just for ich. I have some different methods on how I keep my clowns...lol...but have used salt when needed.

totally i've seen and had the miss fortune of haveing ich meds wipe out a tank of loaches in one night