Congos VS Exodons. + other news today.

[Umbra]

I have one @ 3.5" now and it can chomp through a feeder goldfish no problem. It's killed off every midwater silverish fish I've tried to keep with it, from barbs to small mbuna. I find them chewed in half, literally. I've yet to see an E. paradoxus that can do anywhere near the damage that my little matrincha can.

If you'd like I will try keeping a few exos with it (they'll be 3" or so, the lfs doesn't have any larger) but I'm going to go ahead and predict that I'll wake up to one or two of them dead and I'll have to throw the rest in my growout salvini tank.

As for the cichlid thing, guess it could go both ways huh?

i have seen cichlids killed, and stressed pretty much to death by exodons. " It works out great for the most part", pretty mutch said it all.

as far as matrincha go, as a larger fish, im aware of the damage they can cause, however at 3" they are basically still fry, and are not going to do much damage, if any. this is the case for just about all larger predators. like i said, i have not seen any 3"ers in action, but assuming they are like any other larger perdator, they are not very harmful as fry. if i had access to one, i would gladly put a 3" dorado in any of my exodon tanks.

 

[bitteraspects]

lol. im sure they dont have larger. they dont really get much larger.

as i said. i have never dealt with small brycon/ dorado personally. regardless, you will not get the same reaction out of exodons by dropping them in an established tank. however, feel free to pick up a group of 10 exodons, let them get established, then drop your 3.5" dorado (which is still arger than the exodons, and not what was being discussed), and see what happens. you might be right, maybe it will kill the exodons. i doubt it, but id be interested to see this experiment. especially on your dime.

 

[Umbra]

Ah. There's a flaw in my experiment. 10 vs 1 is a stupid idea, that's a no brainer (well, unless we're talking Telmatochromis dhonti or some other small tough guy cichlid). I was thinking more along the lines of like 3 or 4 exos, but they won't live together with that low of numbers... might as well be 1v1 at that point. Unless you'd be satisfied with me attempting to keep 1 3" exodon with 1 3.5" brycon, I guess it ends here.

On a sidenote, have you noticed that exodons, in a community setting, tend to leave healthy dominant fish alone and pick on the fish that are being bullied by others in the tank? I noticed this behavior when attempting to keep them with T. dhonti and when in the mbuna tank.

Interesting convo nonetheless

 

[bitteraspects]

youre talking apples and oranges now. exodons are not solitary predators, and even with nothing else in the tank, a single exodon will likely die on its own. however brycon are quite the opposite. but if it was the crazy predator at 3" that you claim, it should be able to fend for itself against a group of exodons. it should bite them in half, right?

 

[Umbra]

youre talking apples and oranges now. exodons are not solitary predators, and even with nothing else in the tank, a single exodon will likely die on its own. however brycon are quite the opposite. but if it was the crazy predator at 3" that you claim, it should be able to fend for itself against a group of exodons. it should bite them in half, right?

Actually, given how exodons tend to attack other residents (not fish that are just dropped in like a feeder), I'm sure the Brycon would be able to fight them off for the week or two that it'd take to simply outgrow them. It might not chomp through them as it does through feeders as a feeding response is different than a territorial/defense response because the Brycon would not be hunting them, it'd be territorial/defensive aggression. However, given the damage I've seen them capable of at even 3-4", I'm sure the exodons would have their hands (fins?) full dealing with him. I'm going to check to see if I still have those pictures of my old Brycon that I'd find periodically dead.

And no, single exodons can live fine in a tank. My very first experience with exodons was just a single specimen. Did fine in a 20 long with a strange mixture of fish which included a small jaguar x convict hybrid, a south american puffer and an african clawed frog. Did fine for the lengthy duration that I had him, had it's own little territory beside a plant where it would display and attack the cichlid if it came too close.

 

[bitteraspects]

wait, are you saying exodons do not attack feeders, but only residents? im a bit confused by that first part.

like i said. i doubt it would last a day. but if you feel so compelled to give it a try, i will gladly accept that i am wrong if its not true. but that would require you to get a brycon that is 2-3" (not 3-4" as you keep suggesting), and a group of exodons. seems a bit out of the way just for a failed experiment.

im sure, it CAN live alone. there is always an exception to the rule, but its not recommended, and it is pretty common for them to grow ill or lethargic by themselves. but then again, yours was not by itself, was it? didnt you say there were other fish in the tank?
you "can" drive a car with your feet... doesn't make it a good idea

 

[Umbra]

My bad, I misunderstood, when you said exodons are schooling predators and can't live alone, I thought you meant that they need others of their own kind to live.

As for the feeder comment, I was talking about conditioned responses in fish. A group of fish rise to the surface anticipating a feeding, and anything you drop into the tank will be swarmed, be it a feeder or a cube of bloodworms. That feeding scenario would be different than if you were to keep say, a shoal of exodons and a pair of cichlids in a divided tank, let both parties establish and then pulled the divider. The response from the exodons towards the cichlids would be much different than if you just lobbed them in one day like you would their food.

I suppose it's all just conjecture at this point since it appears neither of us is in a position to set up the experiment, so agree to disagree then?

wait, are you saying exodons do not attack feeders, but only residents? im a bit confused by that first part.

like i said. i doubt it would last a day. but if you feel so compelled to give it a try, i will gladly accept that i am wrong if its not true. but that would require you to get a brycon that is 2-3" (not 3-4" as you keep suggesting), and a group of exodons. seems a bit out of the way just for a failed experiment.

im sure, it CAN live alone. there is always an exception to the rule, but its not recommended, and it is pretty common for them to grow ill or lethargic by themselves. but then again, yours was not by itself, was it? didnt you say there were other fish in the tank?
you "can" drive a car with your feet... doesn't make it a good idea

 

[bitteraspects]

oh, i see what you mean.
actually, in the second scenario, it might work for a little while, but as soon as the cichlids get large enough to eat the exodons, they will be gone. while i dont doubt you have attempted to keep them together in the past, i am sure you did not keep them together for the span of their lives in such a condition, otherwise you would clearly see why its not to be done. but again, there are always exceptions. but i have studied this species, and corresponded with quite a few people on them, and it is generally accepted among experts and hobbyists alike that , aside for a few species of cats, and tetras, these are ment for a species only set up for these and other reasons.

i guess you could say its down to conjecture, only because i dont have access to dorado or brycon, otherwise it would be a proven hypothesis. lol

"agree to disagree"

educational none the less.

 

[cichlidfish]

try again.
exodons should not be kept with cichlids. it will end one of two ways. either the exos will pick the cichlids apart, or che cichlids will get big enough to swallow them whole.
but exodons can be kept with some other fish.

That is what I said in my post-cichlids or any other fish shouldn't be kept w/ exos. So what can be kept w/ exos?

 

[bitteraspects]

Ottos, 2 types of cory, and fire tetras are all gathered from the same waters as exodons. In a group and proper biotope, these will also do just fine in captive.