keepinfish;3333903; said:
Yes but if it would not happen naturally then it should not be done in the aquarium.
cross breeding.
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Yes but if it would not happen naturally then it should not be done in the aquarium.
Hystrix;3331203; said:I think it needs to be stopped all together. It is irresponsible and detrimental to the species as a whole.
David I am still waiting for your thread on this
could hystrix and motoro not happen in the wild?
it may happen in the wild but why encorage it in the aquarium. do you really want to loose proper leo`s, henlei ect to end up with lots of cross bred rays which not only you dont know what they are but they will eventually all start looking the same.
i personally thought pearl rays must be a wild cross breed between a marble and a black ray. i think they look awsome to be honest thats why i have some, but the breeding such with motoro and the blander looking rays will only end up with bland crosses.
i personally thought pearl rays must be a wild cross breed between a marble and a black ray. i think they look awsome to be honest thats why i have some, but the breeding such with motoro and the blander looking rays will only end up with bland crosses.
keepinfish;3334040; said:
If they occur in the same area then yes.
That does not give humans the right to encourage it.
csx4236;3334589; said:
I agree!
There are not enough people in this world that keep rays to sustain a clean gene pool like the wild can. If you have more than one type of ray in your tank which most people do, you can't stop them from getting frisky. You only have to draw the line when the hybrids are taken to the labs and test tubes. If a ray cross breeds in the fish tank, chances are it would do the same in the wild.
I too believe that natural Hybridization occurs in the wild. I was never a big hybrid person,
but after seeing some of the hybrids that can/do occur, I find some of them very
interesting and attractive. The big issues is the dishonest sellers who try to mislead potential
customers on whether they are selling hybrids or not.
I would definitely buy certain hybrids, especially some of the black variants that I have
seen. That is why I would ask for picks of parents or whose stock the got theirs from.
But more than likely I would get the more expensive blacks or hybrids from
someone like Mike (H2O) or a couple of other peeps from this board that
appear to be honest and forthright.
but after seeing some of the hybrids that can/do occur, I find some of them very
interesting and attractive. The big issues is the dishonest sellers who try to mislead potential
customers on whether they are selling hybrids or not.
I would definitely buy certain hybrids, especially some of the black variants that I have
seen. That is why I would ask for picks of parents or whose stock the got theirs from.
But more than likely I would get the more expensive blacks or hybrids from
someone like Mike (H2O) or a couple of other peeps from this board that
appear to be honest and forthright.
All this talk against cross breeding sounds like nazi propaganda to me. There is no health argument against cross breeding as it actually produce tougher ray. Rays are going to be bred to suit the hobbyist taste for it's beauty. Nothing else. So cut the crap on preserving the species unless you intend to be the worlds first ray breeder to bring these pure breeds back to the amazon to release them.
With the quota, the less beautiful rays are not exported or thrown back. In a few generations the looks of the CB ray are going to improve through selective breeding till they look different/better from their wild cousins too.
Sellers mislabeling fishes is a human fault, not the rays. Hobbyist just have to trust ray sellers who have spend time and effort building up a reputation they value.
As for using mutts as an example, all 'pure breds' are wolf offshoots barely a few hundred years old.
People have been breeding offshoots of different fish for it's looks like goldfish from carp for hundreds of years... do you see the carp facing extinction? You see hobbyist complaining when a new breed of goldfish pops out?
...wait a minute, isn't the US president a mixed breed too...
With the quota, the less beautiful rays are not exported or thrown back. In a few generations the looks of the CB ray are going to improve through selective breeding till they look different/better from their wild cousins too.
Sellers mislabeling fishes is a human fault, not the rays. Hobbyist just have to trust ray sellers who have spend time and effort building up a reputation they value.
As for using mutts as an example, all 'pure breds' are wolf offshoots barely a few hundred years old.
People have been breeding offshoots of different fish for it's looks like goldfish from carp for hundreds of years... do you see the carp facing extinction? You see hobbyist complaining when a new breed of goldfish pops out?
...wait a minute, isn't the US president a mixed breed too...
Hobbyist are second biggest threat to their survival next to deforestation so there is no point getting all high and might about protecting the rays. Like the arowana these fish will be safe from extinction long after the last wild one is gone because of their demand.
When we remove the ray from the wild, we have already forfeited the right to say we are preserving the species. The ray becomes a domestic pet and that is all there is to it.
Lastly, the fact that these ray can crossbreed already tell you that they are mutants hybreds from a common ancestor. We are only continuing what the random forces of nature began.
When we remove the ray from the wild, we have already forfeited the right to say we are preserving the species. The ray becomes a domestic pet and that is all there is to it.
Lastly, the fact that these ray can crossbreed already tell you that they are mutants hybreds from a common ancestor. We are only continuing what the random forces of nature began.
all i can say is have a look in the back of the aqualog book. most of the rays there that they have tried to lump together into existing species are are all natural hybrids. then compare them to all the captive hybrids i am sure you will see a lot of similaritys.
Have a look especially at mikes(h2o) and marks(potamtrygon.nl) these are responsible hybrids where both parents are listed and provide a good insight.
If anything the hybridizing of rays in captivity could help identify what are legitimate species and which are hybrids!
what isnt responsible is the mass unkown pond breeding in thailand etc where parentage is unkown and rays are just sold with stupid names .
thats all.
Have a look especially at mikes(h2o) and marks(potamtrygon.nl) these are responsible hybrids where both parents are listed and provide a good insight.
If anything the hybridizing of rays in captivity could help identify what are legitimate species and which are hybrids!
what isnt responsible is the mass unkown pond breeding in thailand etc where parentage is unkown and rays are just sold with stupid names .
thats all.
