Cruelty to animals

[N-E Cichlids]

Disagree

I have a question, what is the difference in feeding a 15" arowana or a 15" goldfish. Also what would you guys say if I hade breeding Arowanas and used their young as feeders?

Once again it is not the size of the prey. The prey should be in proportion to the predator. If you have a 16" Pbass, then common sense says you are not going to feed it a 2" Feeder Goldfish. You are going to feed it a fish that is considered a meal, Like 6-8". Something the fish can eat in a second. One minute there the next minute gone. You do not feed a 4" fish a 7" meal. I don't care if you spend thousands of dollars on an Asian Aro and feed it to another fish. Any fish can be considered prey. As long as you feed it for survival purposes and not for entertainment or to mimic the natural habitat of the fish.

Do you understand the problem here.

 

[Nova 8]

Once again it is not the size of the prey. The prey should be in proportion to the predator. If you have a 16" Pbass, then common sense says you are not going to feed it a 2" Feeder Goldfish. You are going to feed it a fish that is considered a meal, Like 6-8". Something the fish can eat in a second. One minute there the next minute gone. You do not feed a 4" fish a 7" meal. I don't care if you spend thousands of dollars on an Asian Aro and feed it to another fish. Any fish can be considered prey. As long as you feed it for survival purposes and not for entertainment or to mimic the natural habitat of the fish.

Do you understand the problem here.

I do understand the problem, I disagree with the use of live feeders in general. Get your fish off of them asap imo. First thing I did when I got my jar is get him on pellets. But if its all the fish will take, use something that dies as quickly as possible, no something that will get picked at for a long time.

I was remembering back to the thread that had the video of an aro being feed to some small P's. Some people said that it should be a goldfish and aros shouldn't be fed to anything as they are higher on the food chain and less comman. I think this has nothing to do with it, I kept saying that its the size of the fish fed to the P's that is the problem not the species used, so you can see we are on the same page.

 

[Nova 8]

what would be the point. You are still feeding a live animal. Thats why there is pre-killed foods and prepared foods. I mean with P's you could throw in a dead trout, a piece of prawn etc, and you still get the same feeding frenzy. People want to watch something die in front of them, and personally i feel that it's a bit sick. It definately isn't curiosity when you do it time and time again.

I think it is very sick, the only live fish any of my fish get are fry that breed in the tank and stray to far from the parents.

 

[Red Devil]

I think it is very sick, the only live fish any of my fish get are fry that breed in the tank and stray to far from the parents.

i agree with everything you stated here nova and i understand totally what this thread is about.. just stop the cruelty!!!!!

 

[cichlaguapote]

You can stimulate the same reaction with a nice piece of raw bloody meat from the store or some market shrimp. You also do not have to film it and post it up for everyone if it was simply for feeding purposes.

Agree and in fact you can rub on and inject nutrition and color enhancers.

and you don't have to watch it, at one time that raw bloody meat was an animal too

yeah but it was shot in the head instead of being torn apart in every direction..

Piranhas are naturally scavengers in the South American waterways. There is a difference between live food and prekilled food. I don't know about you, but a lot of piranha owners use frozen/thawed or prekilled food successfully. Even with prekilled, they get all the nutrition they need.

Look at snake keepers, we give them prekilled food and they get all the nutrition they need from whole mice. No difference here in comparsion to the piranhas, and there should be no exception either.

I agree actually. Most of the time they won't take down a healthy fish. They prefer as said earlier to scavange the dead like vultures. They'd much rather have a dead carcass. Honestly if anyone wants to recreate the amazon in their tank go to the pet store and get a dead rodent/fish that died of natural causes let it sit out in the sun for a week and then feed it... there you go just like in the wild..

So you are telling me...

- an anaconda choking the life out of something is near instant?

- a pack of lions isolating a water buffalo is gonna be an instant kill?

- a croc dragging a zebra into the water... letting it swim, dragging into in teh water again, ect is near instant?

do I really need to keep giving examples? Many kills are far from instant

Again these animals normally kill live prey. Piranha don't and prefer to scavange. People who are feeding live are only doing so because of stereotypes and their own enjoyment.


In closing. It's nothing new to me. There are some sick people in this world and alot seemingly drawn to fish with teeth and piranha in general and believe the stereotypes. And they feed everything from large goldfish, to mice/rats and I've heard of people wanting to use live guinea pigs and baby rabbits. Sadly all of the piranha specialty sites seem to have these people as the majority. And the admins and mods most of the time are ok with this behaviour. People who claim "they're recreating what happens in the amazon" You can't really recreate something that large in a tiny glass box when live prey has no where to run.

 

[Red Devil]

Agree and in fact you can rub on and inject nutrition and color enhancers.





yeah but it was shot in the head instead of being torn apart in every direction..




I agree actually. Most of the time they won't take down a healthy fish. They prefer as said earlier to scavange the dead like vultures. They'd much rather have a dead carcass. Honestly if anyone wants to recreate the amazon in their tank go to the pet store and get a dead rodent/fish that died of natural causes let it sit out in the sun for a week and then feed it... there you go just like in the wild..




Again these animals normally kill live prey. Piranha don't and prefer to scavange. People who are feeding live are only doing so because of stereotypes and their own enjoyment.


In closing. It's nothing new to me. There are some sick people in this world and alot seemingly drawn to fish with teeth and piranha in general and believe the stereotypes. And they feed everything from large goldfish, to mice/rats and I've heard of people wanting to use live guinea pigs and baby rabbits. Sadly all of the piranha specialty sites seem to have these people as the majority. And the admins and mods most of the time are ok with this behaviour. People who claim "they're recreating what happens in the amazon" You can't really recreate something that large in a tiny glass box when live prey has no where to run.

very well said ... excellent points and questions answered..

 

[cichlaguapote]

one of the main responsibilities as a pet owner is to simulate as much as you can some of our pets natural enviroment, and in this case this is how P's eat it aint pretty but thats the way it is, so let it be. i don't believe a GT's life is anymore important than a goldfishes in the grand scheme of things. And if the owner of the P's wants to spend 20 bucks on a single meal for HIS P's thats him, I'm sure the P's appreciate his kindness.

You're a fool if you think you can make any tank like a natural enviroment unless you're talking 1,000,000 gallons or more and don't care about certain fish getting eaten by larger fish.

I don't make my yard for my dog look more like germany in the 1800's simply because I have a great dane and have a main responsibility to "simulate natural enviroment"

 

[carolinafishkeeper]

stop the cruelty, its all relative, some would say its cruel to keep fish in a tank,

 

[carolinafishkeeper]

You're a fool if you think you can make any tank like a natural enviroment unless you're talking 1,000,000 gallons or more and don't care about certain fish getting eaten by larger fish.

I don't make my yard for my dog look more like germany in the 1800's simply because I have a great dane and have a main responsibility to "simulate natural enviroment"

my point is this....we all hold all, and i do mean all of our pets in bondage period. thats cruel in itself. Your a fool if you think your fish are ''happy'' in their little set-up in your living room, or that they would not be happier in the wild. people need to stop always judging what other people do and worry about themselves, im not saying just to be oblivious of the world around you but if you don't agree with something as elementary as this guys way of feeding his fish then don't look.

AND IF YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU READ I SAID SIMULATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.... key words.. AS MUCH AS YOU CAN

 

[Red Devil]

stop the cruelty, its all relative, some would say its cruel to keep fish in a tank,

That is to be debated.. it depends on the tank, tank mates, fishkeeper and just general care.. we all know if they have all the above in the right order that most fish in captivity will live longer.. that is why most of us are on MFK forum to offer even more quality by our knowledge from one another.. and to learn by our mistakes..