dart frogs

[jpstodwftexas]

Hybridization is a valid concern, but looses importance to those who will not raise nor distribute young...

Why ?

Thats just my point. Can anyone show me evidence of Obvious deformities caused by hybridization not just i hear it is bad.

The Only reason hybridization should worry anyone is if the Offspring has 6 Eyes, 8 legs, 2 Heads, Stall at the Morphing stage with legs and tails.

I agree with everyone NO ONE should sell hybrids without disclosure, even If a Person gives away Hybrids.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

Why ?

Thats just my point. Can anyone show me evidence of Obvious deformities caused by hybridization not just i hear it is bad.

The Only reason hybridization should worry anyone is if the Offspring has 6 Eyes, 8 legs, 2 Heads, Stall at the Morphing stage with legs and tails.

I agree with everyone NO ONE should sell hybrids without disclosure, even If a Person gives away Hybrids.

I think they real issue is not the deformities but those hybrids getting out into the public. I'm sure not everyone out there who keeps mixed dart collections culls the newborn hybrids. And what happens when these same people have to get rid of their frog collection for some reason? They take it to the nearest pet store and pawn it off. Now the pet store is selling hybrid frogs. Someone buys these said frogs thinking they are a pure bred (some hybrids can look 95% like either one parent) and decides to bred them with the frogs he or she thinks they are. That's definitely a possible scenario. We see it in the fish world all the time with cichlids.

 

[jpstodwftexas]

I think they real issue is not the deformities but those hybrids getting out into the public. I'm sure not everyone out there who keeps mixed dart collections culls the newborn hybrids. And what happens when these same people have to get rid of their frog collection for some reason? They take it to the nearest pet store and pawn it off. Now the pet store is selling hybrid frogs. Someone buys these said frogs thinking they are a pure bred (some hybrids can look 95% like either one parent) and decides to bred them with the frogs he or she thinks they are. That's definitely a possible scenario. We see it in the fish world all the time with cichlids.

Again we are back to the selling aspect..It has nothing to do with health issues..It is about the Commercial aspect of the Hobby. Again I will agree that hybridization in frogs that are being sold should not happen unless Full Disclosure happens and it should happen even if given away.

And also the ethical issue.. Honesty in Disclosure.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

Ok fine, lets look at it from the animal's point of view seeing how some people in the hobby could care less about the animals well being and are more concerned about playing God and making something look "cool" in their eyes. Do you think an Azureus would be more comfortable with another Azureus or a Tinc?

 

[EricIvins]

Ok fine, lets look at it from the animal's point of view seeing how some people in the hobby could care less about the animals well being and are more concerned about playing God and making something look "cool" in their eyes. Do you think an Azureus would be more comfortable with another Azureus or a Tinc?

Seeing that an Azureus is pretty much a Blue Tinc, I vote either or.......

 

[Sylvias]

I'm just gonna jump in here....
I don't know to much about dart frogs but I know a bit about mixing species in the same enclosure. Most people advise against it unless you have plenty of space and are very careful about it.
General rules are to only mix species that will not occupy the same space. eg. arboreal and terrestrial species, if you can make one of those nocturnal and the other diurnal then your set.

As far as breeder and hybridization goes.... why not feed the young to something? They are apparently not poisonous in captivity right? Are there not fish that would eat the tadpoles? or snakes and lizards that would eat the frogs themselves?
Again.. I don't know a whole lot about dart frogs but that seems like a logical solution to the problem if they are truly not poisonous.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

Seeing that an Azureus is pretty much a Blue Tinc, I vote either or.......

Come on Eric, even you know they're 2 different species.

 

[jpstodwftexas]

Ok fine, lets look at it from the animal's point of view seeing how some people in the hobby could care less about the animals well being and are more concerned about playing God and making something look "cool" in their eyes. Do you think an Azureus would be more comfortable with another Azureus or a Tinc?

It has been pointed out by many of the experts in the Hobby that Animals will not breed unless the conditions are Optimum. Meaning they are Happy and Stress free.

I Ask you, does not everyone in this Hobby play "GOD" by creating an Environment. We create mini jungles in which we keep animals because it looks "COOL". Are you asking more in the line of people doing designer morphs intentionally? I don't agree with that at all however the majority of people

As I don't speak frog nor am I an animal behaviorist I can not Say. I can say that from multi species tanks I have seen. I have never seen animals killing each other, however I will attest to the fact that I have not spent 1000's of hours observing their behaviors let alone a few 100's

Even during this discussion it has been posted that even amoungst the same species there is bullying which leads to Underfeed frogs and Even death yet no one speaks out against that, they only speak out against when Bullying occurs in Multi species tanks.

 

[EricIvins]

Come on Eric, even you know they're 2 different species.

So? Taxonomy is a Human attempt at trying to figure out the relationships between organisms......It is neither foolproof nor absolute.....

So again, I vote either or because an Azureus is just a Blue Tinc.........I've kept both, and really see no difference between the two, other than color.........

 

[packer43064]

Again we are back to the selling aspect..It has nothing to do with health issues..It is about the Commercial aspect of the Hobby. Again I will agree that hybridization in frogs that are being sold should not happen unless Full Disclosure happens and it should happen even if given away.

And also the ethical issue.. Honesty in Disclosure.

Do you really think everyone is Honest. That's the thing, even the best of people who in a crunch will lie. Unless noone lies about the frog their selling then go ahead mix away. But it's not like that. Even 1 person, 1 single person can mess up the "pure" breeds. Your playing the whole "honesty" garbage and it just doesn't work 100% of the time.