Datnoids, are they all wild caught?

[TCZeli]

1st, there is no cross breeding, there are indos that do not have the same ammount of bars on each side. You said yourself that breeding (if it actually accures) is only 10% successful they wouldnt have even started TRYING to cross breed species if breeding between 2 of the same species is so hard.

2nd, I do not understand all this talk about "original" ST. I understand that Wide Bars come from different areas. These basins are not connected, so why are the "original" extinct species of BUNG BORAPETCH considered the "original" is it because they simply have been dated to have lived on earth longer then the others, or do all other basins have ST that were introduced from this basin?

I asked ealier in this thread if there was any differences in looks between the "original" Wide bar and all other, but did not get an answer, LOK perhaps you could tell me, since you seem to have information on these fish that no other dat keeper has even heard of EVER.

 

[messytank]

messytank,

your very lucky, the original basin of the extinct Thai Siamese Tiger is only around 60kms from Sukhothai, that basin is called BUNG BORAPETCH; the legend of the original ST. there's a small farm nearby involved in the breeding of ST's of cambodian descendants or the widebars we're seeing today, but unfortunately its open to insiders only. but its not the only one that i know of.

so i hope this info if useful to this board.

I keep telling my dad to pick up some tigers to breed in his pond..! lol Someday I will visit his place and hopefully start something up

 

[messytank]

hopefully I can start my monitoring system project... and monitor my water params and whatnot over the net.

edit: anyone interested in the project can pm me. - it involves programming and basic electronics hosted on apache.

 

[Lok Tiger Fish]

i have been keeping ST for 5yrs + and know that the indo on one side and 3 bars on the other are still indos they are not a hybrid

i have real ST myself and can ID most tigers easy

i can show you pics of my tigers it doesnt mean i am breeding them

i can show you pictures of my rays when they are preg and after the pups are born

you have shown us nothing why should we belive you

the 2nd picture is what i would call a real ST

The 1st picture is what i would call a CT or cambodian tiger

T1karmann,

i hope you don't tell others this, especially asian people, they would laugh at you, ST is ST, the difference is just the grade, there is not a CT or a Real siamese Tiger, go learn your basics again. 1st pic, grade C, second is grade A. remember it, there are some things you cannot learn from books or from what you think you know, i am a local of its origin where we don't assume because we got fathers and grandfathers who has kept these fishes before and knows what is a good grade and what is not.

so do you want me to buy you a ticket to come over here and catch the so called wild caught? i will be happy to buy them off you any amount anytime.


oh almost forgot, did i ever say i was breeding hybrids, i don't think so, what i was trying to convey was cross breeding of indo's which is between a double band and a widebar indo, go get it straight.

 

[T1KARMANN]

the 2 pictures i posted both ST but from diffrent locations

what you are saying about grade is rubbish the 1st picture is of what i would class as CT (cambodian tiger) which are caught on the bormer border they have a diffrent shape to other ST much broader head thickness and the body shape is not as deep they also display this kind of banana yellow color which other ST caught at diffrent locations dont seam to have

hey what do i know your the breeder do you have any pictures of eggs or fry thats the only way you are going to prove they are captive bred

it seams that you need to do more resurch just because you live in thialand doesnt mean you know all their is to know about ST

one thing i know for sure is if i captive bred ST i would be very proud to share the info with the rest of the world and buy showing some pictures of eggs or fry is NOT giveing any secrets away

 

[Lok Tiger Fish]

1st, there is no cross breeding, there are indos that do not have the same ammount of bars on each side. You said yourself that breeding (if it actually accures) is only 10% successful they wouldnt have even started TRYING to cross breed species if breeding between 2 of the same species is so hard.

2nd, I do not understand all this talk about "original" ST. I understand that Wide Bars come from different areas. These basins are not connected, so why are the "original" extinct species of BUNG BORAPETCH considered the "original" is it because they simply have been dated to have lived on earth longer then the others, or do all other basins have ST that were introduced from this basin?

I asked ealier in this thread if there was any differences in looks between the "original" Wide bar and all other, but did not get an answer, LOK perhaps you could tell me, since you seem to have information on these fish that no other dat keeper has even heard of EVER.

I guess the Jap cartoon ID chart is not clear and i am not 100% sure either as i have never seen it in real life, but from what i heard in a discussion from my friends fathers when they had the chance to fish for them and keep them as pets before we were born, the difference in CT and Thai were that their mouths were shorther in comparison at full size, their tail has two thick clean stripes unlike the CT where it would have one and another that stretches up to the back dorsal fin. and one last thing that i cannot imagine, he said that the colours are very gold with an orange shade compared to CT's where they have a more mixed reddish to green shade this is due to that the basin's water (i have fished there before for snakeheads and looking for ST farms) is very very clear, therefore their colour has to be extra bright to frighten away predators. which the other basin, i think it is spelt BUNG Takeo (CT version), has different vegetation, fish types, soil etc which affects its looks and colour. but the first kept ST were the Thai BUNG BORAPETCH version. so that is all i heard and can imagine from then til now, since all that i have ever had were CT's, which i tried not to believe him and went around and fom alot of connections, willing to pay any price for a real Thai tiger but was disappointed with grade A+ CT's or a laugh in my face. trust me, i didn't give up for two full years. until now, that i have many friends in the fisheries dept; gave me alot of facts to learn and cherish from.


about your first quote, it is proven by the fish dept and me, tried keeping the same size indo and ST together in the same tank and rearing them with thesame food, same water (a 60" x24" x 30" tank split in half) and everything, the indo grew around 20 to 30% faster. they also mated at an earlier age; around 5-6 years as i heard. but i cannot give you any evidence. for the 10%, i am meaning CT's whcih they grow very slow, due to the limited numbers, pairing is difficult fromt the age difference and timing as well as survival rate.

i hope this helps.

 

[TCZeli]

LOk - Cross breeding refers to the breeding of two different species in order to get a hybrid. (response to #114)

And yes, showing a picture of eggs, and fry will not give away the process of them breeding. It would only prove that they are being bred, and will attract more people to them to buy these farm bred fish. Which I would think they would want since this is a business. It is not smart for a business to keep there product a secret.

I have not yet seen a single dat labeled as "captive bred" or "wild caught" the reason there is no need for these labels is because there isnt more then one catagory. They are all wild caught

Also, I have seen both types of wide bars before, the 2 thick clean stripes and the CT verson where it runs up the back, infact a LFS by me has what you would refer to as a the extinct kind with 2 bars, should I believe this is the extinct widebar? I only as because this is another claim I have never herd of, I know they are endangered but I have not heard of any dats being extinct.

 

[Lok Tiger Fish]

the 2 pictures i posted both ST but from diffrent locations

what you are saying about grade is rubbish the 1st picture is of what i would class as CT (cambodian tiger) which are caught on the bormer border they have a diffrent shape to other ST much broader head thickness and the body shape is not as deep they also display this kind of banana yellow color which other ST caught at diffrent locations dont seam to have

hey what do i know your the breeder do you have any pictures of eggs or fry thats the only way you are going to prove they are captive bred

it seams that you need to do more resurch just because you live in thialand doesnt mean you know all their is to know about ST

one thing i know for sure is if i captive bred ST i would be very proud to share the info with the rest of the world and buy showing some pictures of eggs or fry is NOT giveing any secrets away

good luck, hope you scuba dived a fish pond before.


and caught at different locations? you are so illiterate on asia, because of you people, alot of deforestation has occured, pollution, also so many things, made alot of them unable to breed or die and reduce in numbers. i wonder if your brother or sister looks exactly like you or not, mind showing me a pic, cause i think that if you and them were born in the same hospital, you won't look the same.


hahaha you have the thickest #$%^$ i have ever known about dats, hence no point sharing anything with you if you think your the best anyways, i'd rather learn and share rather than have to share and get told that i am a kid.

i won't prove or argue with you anymore, so i won't reply you or any of your professic assumptions about dats.

i hopefully will share my pics and the fish market in Thailand, and experiences with other people on dats, i have had over ten years experience with them, but still alot of questions that need answering, but i will start a new thread. hope i won't see you there as you already know it all.

good bye

 

[Lok Tiger Fish]

LOk - Cross breeding refers to the breeding of two different species in order to get a hybrid.

And yes, showing a picture of eggs, and fry will not give away the process of them breeding. It would only prove that they are being bred, and will attract more people to them to buy these farm bred fish. Which I would think they would want since this is a business. It is not smart for a business to keep there product a secret.

I have not yet seen a single dat labeled as "captive bred" or "wild caught" the reason there is no need for these labels is because there isnt more then one catagory. They are all wild caught

i just have to say that the real breeders and people with true knowledge and dedication is very limited to a handful, and the gov't has limited this action to only the fisheries dept, making all other parties illegal, therefore there is a small secret society that is like helping the Fisheries dept cause they are friends. we want them to thrive and be available once again of course. but this is not just for profit. when all this goes through, i am more than willing to tell you more about it. but for now, i hope you understand and my whole point is to make fans of dats aware and not just think that they are wild caught only to the reason why there are less and less ST's at LFS.

 

[TCZeli]

i just have to say that the real breeders and people with true knowledge and dedication is very limited to a handful, and the gov't has limited this action to only the fisheries dept, making all other parties illegal, therefore there is a small secret society that is like helping the Fisheries dept cause they are friends. we want them to thrive and be available once again of course. but this is not just for profit. when all this goes through, i am more than willing to tell you more about it. but for now, i hope you understand and my whole point is to make fans of dats aware and not just think that they are wild caught only to the reason why there are less and less ST's at LFS.

Secret society? LMAO

ok, im done with this guy now. I cant take anything you said serious at all