Datnoid's stability mystery

[krichardson]

Woofy you got it in reverse.It is when the dat is dark and its stripes can barely be seen is when it is considered unstable.


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[woofy]

Ahh see that makes sense. So i can do the i told you so dance to the person who taught me wrong. So mine sounds stable right? I want to make sure before i go off and tell everyone "oh heres what i do for a stable dat"


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[T1KARMANN]

Just put in the Driftwood back in since their tank move 3-4 weeks ago. Now dats decide they want to stable up a bit more. Hopefully, it progresses. If not, dat how they are.

i think you need some clown loach in that tank

just out of interest whats the nitrates like

 

[Farox]

Ok so. Im in a no way a dat enthusiast like most here. I have one dat because i like them. Period. I have never understood the whole stable issues. So let me see if i understand. If a dat is hiding all day, dark, faded bars, and just sits around its stable? My dat only get this way when im doing work in the tank or driving everyone crazy trying to net fish out. He will go nuts wedge himself or hide or sulk or breath rapidly and turn black with faded bars and look horribly stressed. So hes stable? Cause if this is the "stable" everyone tries to achieve then no thanks. I like him better when hes swimming around happily bright gold body with dark bold stripes and eating his flakes and pellets. Acting like a normal fish. So thats unstable? Im sooo confused.

Also one of his bars (when not dark of faded and gold colored body) doesnt go all the way down. Kinda like a oddball clown loach. Its just like half way down. I thought this was just his pattern but i was told this meant he was unstable?


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You're mixing it up Stable is an active colored datnoid and unstable a dark hiding one.

I'm no dat expert either but my 2 dats seemed to get more stable when I changed to low LED lights in the tank so it's darker.

BTW, anyone tried dats in a black water tank or a more dirty tank? Did that help? Just a theory I thought about because everyone says they need to clean water, maybe thats why they get unstable?

 

[strollo22]

You're mixing it up Stable is an active colored datnoid and unstable a dark hiding one.

I'm no dat expert either but my 2 dats seemed to get more stable when I changed to low LED lights in the tank so it's darker.

BTW, anyone tried dats in a black water tank or a more dirty tank? Did that help? Just a theory I thought about because everyone says they need to clean water, maybe thats why they get unstable?

I use blackwater extract in my tank. No changed with stability but definitely more active.

 

[Vancouver_98683]

i think you need some clown loach in that tank

just out of interest whats the nitrates like

I change my water 50% with Seachem Prime every 5-7 days. Too be honest. Haven't checked my parameters recently as the tank is often clear and haven't experienced any issues. If there was any present, clown loaches will be the first indicators.

 

[RD.]

I think that both camps are correct, that being the colors seen in a "stable" dat, and an "unstable" dat, can be caused by the same environmental triggers. Stimuli that may frighten or stress one fish, may trigger dominance or aggressive territorial behaviour in another.

The pigment cells in fish that are involved with color changes are called chromatophores. These cells can be altered due to morphological changes in the fishes environment such as background and/or substrate color, or from physiological responses to aggression, stress, etc.

In a stressed fish plasma cortisol levels increase, and cortisol levels are how researchers typically determine stress levels in fish when exposed to various conditions. Not all species, and perhaps even individual specimens within each species will react exactly the same to the same environmental or physiological stimuli.

As an example, in Nile tilapia a blue background causes an increase in aggression, where as a blue light causes a calming, protective role in stress in this species.

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjmbr/v34n8/4190.pdf

Fanta (16) argues that a blue background increases aggression in the Nile tilapia, and suggests that this color is not adequate for holding containers for this species. Conversely, the present data show that blue light has a protective role against stress for this same species

Hormonal color changes could explain why with an increase in age/size dats often become more stable, and tend to show what most would consider dominant coloration, vs camouflage (sub-dominant concealment) vs younger, less mature dats kept under the exact same tank conditions. In some tanks fish take on more dominant, territorial behaviour early on in life, even as small juvies, and this could also very well be sex (and hormone) related.

None of the above is outside the norm for many species of fish that are kept in captivity.


Clearly there is no question that some dats kept in a stressful environment appear to be what many refer to as "stable", displaying dominant colors, and there are dats that kept in these exact same conditions appear to be "unstable", as in displaying dark camo/concealment stress pattern & coloration.

Perhaps some fish fall under the "fight" response, and some fall under the "flight" response. Same stimuli, but opposite reaction based on size/sex/dominance/tank mates/overall health etc-etc.

IMO the reason for no real definitive answer to the "stability" question, is that no single answer is correct for all fish, of various age/size/sex, kept under all of the various conditions possible in captivity.

This is why in Indonesia hobbyists will state: That is the challenge of keeping tigers - swee swee kim kim (stable) one moment and then suddenly "orh-orh". (black/unstable)

With datnoids, this just seems to be part of the enigma and challenge that makes keeping them so interesting.

 

[strollo22]

I think that both camps are correct, that being the colors seen in a "stable" dat, and an "unstable" dat, can be caused by the same environmental triggers. Stimuli that may frighten or stress one fish, may trigger dominance or aggressive territorial behaviour in another.

The pigment cells in fish that are involved with color changes are called chromatophores. These cells can be altered due to morphological changes in the fishes environment such as background and/or substrate color, or from physiological responses to aggression, stress, etc.

In a stressed fish plasma cortisol levels increase, and cortisol levels are how researchers typically determine stress levels in fish when exposed to various conditions. Not all species, and perhaps even individual specimens within each species will react exactly the same to the same environmental or physiological stimuli.

As an example, in Nile tilapia a blue background causes an increase in aggression, where as a blue light causes a calming, protective role in stress in this species.

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjmbr/v34n8/4190.pdf




Hormonal color changes could explain why with an increase in age/size dats often become more stable, and tend to show what most would consider dominant coloration, vs camouflage (sub-dominant concealment) vs younger, less mature dats kept under the exact same tank conditions. In some tanks fish take on more dominant, territorial behaviour early on in life, even as small juvies, and this could also very well be sex (and hormone) related.

None of the above is outside the norm for many species of fish that are kept in captivity.


Clearly there is no question that some dats kept in a stressful environment appear to be what many refer to as "stable", displaying dominant colors, and there are dats that kept in these exact same conditions appear to be "unstable", as in displaying dark camo/concealment stress pattern & coloration.

Perhaps some fish fall under the "fight" response, and some fall under the "flight" response. Same stimuli, but opposite reaction based on size/sex/dominance/tank mates/overall health etc-etc.

IMO the reason for no real definitive answer to the "stability" question, is that no single answer is correct for all fish, of various age/size/sex, kept under all of the various conditions possible in captivity.

This is why in Indonesia hobbyists will state: That is the challenge of keeping tigers - swee swee kim kim (stable) one moment and then suddenly "orh-orh". (black/unstable)

With datnoids, this just seems to be part of the enigma and challenge that makes keeping them so interesting.

Well said RD. So true.

 

[Runitis]

My dats aare weird. I have three. The most dominant who is active and eats pellets like a pig is 50% stable (sometimes stable sometimes not) the smallest and the least dominant one is 100% stable. Its when it can get past the big Guy usually hides gets headbutted but never head buts back. The middle Guy a mix of the two not stable at all. All three eat pellets have there own hiding spots and actively come out to beg for food a lot and swim around when I am near. No clue how to.do it

I need to spark up my fish life

 

[RD.]

Runtis - your dats are still very young juvies, I wouldn't expect too much in the way of stability at this point.