Deathcurl in Second Ray!

[DB junkie]

Ashley/Matt......

How much salt are you guys using? You've done lots of W/C but what kind of ratio is the salt going in at?

 

[Miles]

I dont believe that fine sand will do anything to your rays.

I disagree

Also, you said that they are uncurled now, so i wouldent do anyhing about the sand (why stress them yet again?).

I don't think they ever curled, or they would be dead by now.. acting irritated? yes... curling? Nah.. my retics do the 'fake' curl all the time and I finally decided they use their back fins sometimes as rudders in the water to help hold themselves in place in the current..

And Miles, do you seriously belive that the orbignyi died because you moved it to a tank with fine sand????

They were on the same system, so I doubt it was water parameter swings.. the stress of being netted? maybe.. the likelyhood that burrowing in sharp silica/glass/fine sand and having it get in the gills and spiracles? pretty high..

I impoted 20 rectis 2 weeks ago. And i had them on drip for 1 hour. As soon as I moved them to the new tank, 3 deathcureld within an hour. This tank dident have any sand.

You dripped them after import? no wonder they died..

All were thin, and in bad shape. Like the orbignyi.

Doomed from the get go.. how long is the flight from Colombia to where your at?

Moving fish to new water paraments (<-- spelling?) can be very stressfull. And im sure thats what kills them.

Its funny I move rays around all the time.. I imported rays into a 7.8pH and dumped them straight into the water, no drip acclimation... only lost 1 out of a few hundred, (within a few hrs of import) and it was already curling in the bag. Link: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4816&highlight=death+curl

Flowers often deathcurel after they have been added to their new home.

Flowers

And it dosent really matter if there is sand in the tank or not.

IMO, it depends on the quality, size, sharpness of the sand..
so yeah it does matter.

And im also pretty sure that rays deathcurel do to stress. Not ammonia or nitrite.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143773&highlight=ammonia+rays

Yeah I remember this thread did you ever see my reply.. Nice Pleco in your avatar Do you even keep rays? LOL j/k C'mon Anders try and keep up..

 

[Miles]

Ashley...

Ever go to the beach? Ever have some sand get 'down there' ...?

How did it make you feel?





Ever have it in your ears?

Ever get it in your lungs?

What if you had spiracles and gills.. ? would it bug you?


You've got a few options..
Leave the sand and consider it a mysterious death
Pull the sand and if it dies it was from my bad advice and it got stressed
Pull the sand and it gets better like alleykat's retics..

2 cents

 

[alleykat0498]

Ashley...

Ever go to the beach? Ever have some sand get 'down there' ...?

How did it make you feel?





Ever have it in your ears?

Ever get it in your lungs?

What if you had spiracles and gills.. ? would it bug you?


You've got a few options..
Leave the sand and consider it a mysterious death
Pull the sand and if it dies it was from my bad advice and it got stressed
Pull the sand and it gets better like alleykat's retics..

2 cents

I must admit 24 hours after I pulled most of my sand they did show some decent improvement. I have also tried to medicate in concentrated stages ($$$) I will post some pics very soon on my thread and you guys can make your own decision but based on very recent experience I have to go with miles on this one.

 

[andersp90]

I disagree
I don't think they ever curled, or they would be dead by now.. acting irritated? yes... curling? Nah.. my retics do the 'fake' curl all the time and I finally decided they use their back fins sometimes as rudders in the water to help hold themselves in place in the current..
They were on the same system, so I doubt it was water parameter swings.. the stress of being netted? maybe.. the likelyhood that burrowing in sharp silica/glass/fine sand and having it get in the gills and spiracles? pretty high..
You dripped them after import? no wonder they died..
Doomed from the get go.. how long is the flight from Colombia to where your at?
Its funny I move rays around all the time.. I imported rays into a 7.8pH and dumped them straight into the water, no drip acclimation... only lost 1 out of a few hundred, (within a few hrs of import) and it was already curling in the bag. Link: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4816&highlight=death+curl
Flowers
IMO, it depends on the quality, size, sharpness of the sand..
so yeah it does matter.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143773&highlight=ammonia+rays

Yeah I remember this thread did you ever see my reply.. Nice Pleco in your avatar Do you even keep rays? LOL j/k C'mon Anders try and keep up..

After a 40-50 hours flight/trip to me, drip is a very good idea.

Also, the water was only 20-22 degress. And the tank water were 28-29.

So I dident want to give them a huge chock. Also, they deathcurled after being added to the tank. There were no sign of them curling, before they where added. And there were no ammonia or nitrite in the tank (or sand).
And funny enough, as soon as they where added, the curling began.

Also, i have stated from the start that her rays are just showing normal sings of stress, NOT deathcurl.

Also, about the flowers. You just said "flowers" like they are the retards of the stingray world.

But its kinda funny, they all death curel just after being added to the tank.

And its the same story with, rectis, orbignyis and so on (only happens with very weak rays).

Its the same story with newly imported altums. Change to much water and they all die.

Also, rays have a very thik slime coating. Just how is the sand gonna come into contact with the rays skin?

Also, the rays i imported almost 14 days ago, are all eating and getting better day by day. But 70% of them are STILL lifting their disc. AND THERE IS NO SAND IN THE TANK.

Now, her rays are still "curling" a bit. And it must be the sand for sure.
because changing tons of water and adding lots of medicine is not stressfull at all.

Oh, and i have a friend that keeps geophagus in a tank with sand like that. And these guys filtrate the sand through their gills. And for some strange reason, they are all still alive.

 

[andersp90]

Ashley...

Ever go to the beach? Ever have some sand get 'down there' ...?

How did it make you feel?





Ever have it in your ears?

Ever get it in your lungs?

What if you had spiracles and gills.. ? would it bug you?


You've got a few options..
Leave the sand and consider it a mysterious death
Pull the sand and if it dies it was from my bad advice and it got stressed
Pull the sand and it gets better like alleykat's retics..

2 cents

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........................

You are comparing a human to a ray. Thats just 100% stupid.

Rays are made for a life on the bottom.

Also, have you ever seen the sand/mud that comes from the amazon? Its more fine or just as fine as anything you can buy in a store. And why do you think the amazon river is so brown? because its filled with billions and billions of tiny tiny particles. And funny enough, thats where the rays come from. And it looks like they are doing just fine.

But let me tell you this miles.

Denmark is the motherland of the malawicichlids. Most of the species where kept here before they where seen anywhere else.

And more and more are using silica (used for sandblasting) for the malawi tanks and many malawi cichlids use their gills to filter the sand for food. AND THERE HAVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY NO REPORTS OF DEATHS RELATED TO THE USE OF SILICA SAND!

Its damn cheap, and thats why so many danish people use it now (money matters when you have 1000-2000 lites of malawi tanks, wich is totally normal here).

And i have friends who keep Geophagus, and they also use it. And havent had any problems either.

Also, there have been HUGE debates about the usage of silica in malawi tanks, cos people where scared that it might damage the gills of their expensive fish.

The debates were finnaly killed when some guy posted pics of silica and normal sand taken under a microscope.

The grains had the same colour and shape as normal sand you can buy in a store.

I will find the pics and the thread tomorrow. Then you can see it yourself.

 

[Miles]

You should read up on ammonia toxicity and pH and why drip acclimation is detrimental...

Comparing humans and rays? Would that be like comparing wild amazon silt substrate with captive crushed glass substrate? Rays in the wild can 'leave' if they don't like the substrate, not so much in the glass jail cell.

Comparing cichlids and rays? Would that be like humans and rays or ...


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I still think it's the sand.

I think larger rays can live on this sand, no problem. I think juvenile rays, specifically reticulata, are irritated by it...

(ps. 3 of my retics are from TFD and they were way worse than these. LFS had them on crushed coral with an UGF. They sure did heal quickly on the barebottom with driftwood hiding spots )

 

[Miles]

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[FishDog]

Always love a good P*ssing match LOL! I have a bare bottom QT tank and smooth gravel in my main tank. To many variables with sand.

 

[abortedsoul]

Ashley/Matt......

How much salt are you guys using? You've done lots of W/C but what kind of ratio is the salt going in at?

We are dissolving the salt and keeping it at a consistent 1 tbs / 5 gallons of water, per recommended dosage. Is that about right?