I just acquired 3 discus and have a 45 gallon tank, feeding them beefheart, how many times should i feed a day and can i also feed tropical flakes? Also, i have substrate in tank but was told to do 10/15 % water change a week, is that correct? I kno they like bare bottoms but i got substrate for my plants. I got fish Sunday and they ate the next morning, look good
Discus
- Thread starter Julie1
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I'm guessing that you are somewhat new to fish keeping, based upon your questions. If not, then take that into account with my answers. Also, while I have kept fish, I haven't kept discus, so I'll refer you to other sources.
1) You should not feed them beef heart. Or basically anything from mammals or birds. There are a lot of foods they will likely eat, but you haven't said what size they are, so it's a guess what they will eat. Read this and you will find some information:
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/discus-profile.229035/
2) I assume you have a cycled tank. If not, you should ask about that.
3) Assuming you have a cycled tank, you should test your water for nitrates. If and when it gets over 20 ppm, you should do a water change and try to get it back down below 10. (Some do not want it that high, and if you had eggs or fry you absolutely don't want it that high, but some people keep it even higher. With Discus, personally, I would want it below 20 all the time, and even lower.)
How much water and how often depends on how high and how fast your nitrates get.
As for the substrate, I doubt that the Discus "like bare bottoms" as you were told. In fact, I've never heard of any fish liking it. Here's a link on a search "Discus Tanks" and out of the ~150 tanks, I did not see one with a bare bottom. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=discus+tanks&t=h_&iax=1&ia=images
What I have heard is that humans like bare bottoms.
There is a lot more information here:
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/are-you-thinking-about-trying-discus.210176/
1) You should not feed them beef heart. Or basically anything from mammals or birds. There are a lot of foods they will likely eat, but you haven't said what size they are, so it's a guess what they will eat. Read this and you will find some information:
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/discus-profile.229035/
2) I assume you have a cycled tank. If not, you should ask about that.
3) Assuming you have a cycled tank, you should test your water for nitrates. If and when it gets over 20 ppm, you should do a water change and try to get it back down below 10. (Some do not want it that high, and if you had eggs or fry you absolutely don't want it that high, but some people keep it even higher. With Discus, personally, I would want it below 20 all the time, and even lower.)
How much water and how often depends on how high and how fast your nitrates get.
As for the substrate, I doubt that the Discus "like bare bottoms" as you were told. In fact, I've never heard of any fish liking it. Here's a link on a search "Discus Tanks" and out of the ~150 tanks, I did not see one with a bare bottom. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=discus+tanks&t=h_&iax=1&ia=images
What I have heard is that humans like bare bottoms.
There is a lot more information here:
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/are-you-thinking-about-trying-discus.210176/
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Sorry to disagree here, but much of what you've said is wrong, at least when it comes to discus.
First, beef heart is an excellent food for discus because of its high protein content. However, it does require more water changes.
This brings us to the water changes and nitrates. You are right that discus really require low nitrate levels. With three discus in a 45 gallon tank and feeding beef heart, I would say that at least a 50% daily water change is needed, if the discus are juvies and still growing (under 4"). If they are larger than 4", then larger water changes, less often, will suffice. Something like 75% every three days or so.
Now, for the bare bottom part. Many fish really don't care if there is a substrate or not. Discus are one of these types and could care less if there is a substrate. When keeping discus, it is very important to keep the water clean. One thing that can hurt the water quality is food and detritus getting stuck down in the substrate. With a discus tank, it is important to make sure this does not happen. Keeping a bare bottom tank makes it easy to siphon out the leftover food and detritus, which is why it is highly recommended to keep discus in a bare bottom tank. With growing juvies, it is pretty much a requirement.
Another point to touch on is the number. You say that you have three, but discus are schooling fish that do best in groups of six or more. Having said that, discus also need a tank that's allows about 10 gallons per discus, so a 60 gallon minimum.
Discus are not the easiest to keep, but they are fantastic fish if you can keep up with their maintenance.
Then is beef heart only good for discus, or should all fish eat it? And if not, why not? Is their some special organ or chemical in discus that makes them uniquely qualified to digest mammal flesh?
Here's a quote from a doctor from another thread:
"The routine of feeding beef heart and other red meats to Cichlids can ultimately give rise to health problems. Poultry meat is also suspect. Red meats, including lean meats such as beef heart, contain the wrong sorts of fats - these harden within the cold-blooded fish, leading to blockages and fatty deposits around the liver.
Also, the relative proportions of amino acids within the mammalian proteins are different to those required by fish. Hence, feeding red meats will cause the cichlid to excrete more nitrogenous (ammonia) wastes, thereby placing an extra burden on the biological filter."
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/beef-heart.516069/
Personally, I don't agree, but people can feed their fish beef heart, corn, lard or whatever they please. I'm not "wrong" for having an opinion about what they should be given to eat.
I think you perhaps misread my post. I didn't say 'fish care about the substrate.' I said 'I've never heard of any fish liking bare bottoms'.
I said that because I was replying to the OP saying "discus like bare bottoms." Which btw, you seem to completely agree with.
Of course, lots and lots of people keep tanks with sand and don't have detritus issues, but there's no doubt that it's easier for the owner to keep a tank clean with a bare bottom.
Which is why I said "humans like bare bottoms."
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True, my the wording of the bare bottom comments may have been misunderstood. You said "you've never heard of any fish liking bare bottoms." I took this as you think any fish wants to have a substrate. My apologies.
As for beef heart, I don't have any scientific data for feeding beef heart, but lots of people over on SimplyDiscus feed it, at least during the growing out of their juvies, and have had great success with it. Because discus are thought of as a bit of a "show" fish, most discus keepers believe they should always be grown out to their full potential. The fish is also very easily stunted during its juvenile stage, which is irreversible. This means they must be grown out as quickly as possible. The best foods to do this are high protein foods. Beef heart is quite lean, and very high in protein. It may cause higher ammonia output from the fish. This is one of the reasons why the larger and more frequent water changes are necessary. In addition, many discus keepers vac out all uneaten food after each feeding. Another point made by the quote you posted above is that the fatty parts can solidify in the cold blooded fish. First, I have already mentioned that beef heart is very lean. Next, discus are often kept in higher temperatures than most other fish. Many keep them in the range of 84-96 deg. This will help keep the fatty deposits from solidifying. I still think that beef heart is a very good food for discus, if the proper maintenance is kept up.
Thanks, but not needed. The way I posted was rather casual and I could have been clearer.
Thanks for the comprehensive reply.
I don't if any one has any long term studies on fish, much less discus that eat beef heart. Not to say there aren't scientific expert opinions, but has there been a study? Idk. Perhaps,
My take is that you mean beef heart is preferable at the juvenile stage. But you don't seem to be suggesting it's a good lifelong staple. (Or I missed it.) That would be more grey than the black and white, all or nothing approach since a healthy discus likely spends most of it's life as an adult. Do you agree?
I'd probably try other high protein foods besides beef heart, provided the discus would eat it readily. Do I know what that would be? Nope. Perhaps shrimp, certain fish, etc., but no clue if juvenile discus would eat it. In the wild, they obviously eat something besides beef heart or shrimp! But I won't argue if people have tried and found that juvies only eat beef heart.
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Ive raised discus for 15 years. In my experience, beef-heart (along with freeze-dried blackworms with spirulina) is the best food that you can feed your discus to get maximum growth and help maintain their rather weak immunity ( from the fry stage to up to 4 inches).
I have adults at the moment 6- 7 inches, just recently past the sub-adult stage. I now feed them a more varied diet of beefheart (once daily) and a rotation of freeze-dried black-worms with spirulina, bloodworms, and flake food.
I have adults at the moment 6- 7 inches, just recently past the sub-adult stage. I now feed them a more varied diet of beefheart (once daily) and a rotation of freeze-dried black-worms with spirulina, bloodworms, and flake food.
yes. I'm learning slight 2 g water changes 5 times a day(approximately) Keeps the heat up too. 10 to 12 times a day feeding for lil guys. They do eat a lot. Maybe check out the mud puddles of the Amazon basin? Anything to help us learn how to raise em
