Discussion on Temporary Tanks and Cichlid Stocking

[nuth88]

And I am not flaming you or disagreeing, But even though, you, me, whatever knows what is right.....What they may do is another thing.....

What I am trying to say is that this site (of which I love...) has too many people who seem to think that they are the freaking reincarnation of Jaques Costeau/Steve Irwin.....When THEY jump on their soapbox, thats when I choose NOT to join the discussion. This Thread has made some fantastic points of which, I hope do not get ignored by the holier than thou attitude that sometime comes from un named members. You see my name in a lot of posts.........and not in a lot of others......

2 reasons

1 = Dumbazzes who have the right to state their opinoin.
2 = Subjects that I do not feel im qualified to respond too

Now when I see a post asking for advice on certian Africans I have had in the past, or about CA/CA's that I may have had or do currently have...I will chime in....

No Flame to you at all Carpediem.....Just understood your point, but was also echoing xEchOx's word as well. Cor seems to understand......

There was one Steve Irwin, there is one Herbert Axelrod, just one Paul Losielle (sp).

I am not him or them, or will I ever try to pretend that I am. Everyday I learn something new here, and I have been a responsible fishkeeper for over 25 years.....But you can learn something new every day, IF someone who may not have the background to understand your point, I will engage, but if someone who doesn't understand your point, hears it and chooses to Ignore it?

That can not be helped.....

No Flame intention at all.....

That is exactly the purpose of this thread... Give advice and share experience.

Please don't misunderstand. I know that there are the responsible ones that upgrade when necessary but, in my experience, for every responsible one there are a dozen irresponsible ones.

My purpose, to simply question the mindset. A 40 gallon tank is too small for a pacu, not a 40 gallon will *eventually* be too small for a pacu. As I said, when sombody goes trolling for the answer they want i.e. "yeah, that would be okay for awhile", there will always be the one yahoo that will give it to them.

There is a local Pet Supplies Plus here in Pittsburgh that has an enormous male midas in a 100+ gallon oddball tank. One of the guys there told me that he lived his whole life in a 55 gallon tank and was dumped at the store. I'm not kidding when I say that this fish has to be 18". He is all messed up. Can't swim upright, swims upside down and sideways. It's like he has no equilibrium at all. He is otherwise healthy and normal looking. Just lived his whole life cramped and in a tank that was way too small. I wonder if that was a temporary tank at one point...

 

[cichlaguapote]

Nuth88: You bring up something else entirely. People giving advice based on what one member has said or personal beliefs that are not researched or learned from experiance. Generally we all commonly believe the same thing as far as how to humanely keep fish. But there are a few who have their own ideas that go so far against the grain that advice shouldn't be given as it's not wise.

I think too much immaturity gets in the way sometimes when someone gets a rtc for free, or buys more fish when they're tanks are undersized compared to what should properly house a certain fish. And everyone's "yeah!" for it but not thinking about the long run. If I had a dime for everytime I heard someone ask how long they can growout a fish that gets 2-3-4ft in a small tank because that's the biggest tank they can have, I'd be a millionaire. Some people seem not to know how to realize what's best for the fish.

As far as stocking. There will always be someone to push the boundrys. But the people who success at it IMO will usually be the experianced who have suffered losses and learned from them. I don't think repairs 1st tank was his 265g with all the cichlids. It's trial and error and I would never want to see someone just getting into the hobby try something like that.

As far as people buying large growing fish for small tanks, that's sorta the way the hobby gets started for alot of people. You buy a 30g or 55g and grow some fish out and realize you want more. But there are people who overstock and just don't care because of an "Oh well" attitude. Those people are entirely different and IMO the people who really upset me as to me they're not true hobbiest's. Also along the same lines the people who think breeding a pair of fish in a tank full of other fish is a great idea.

I am a firm believer that if you can't reasonable care for a fish and provide it the space that commonly should be allowed you should get rid of it. Some people hate to hear that though.

My .02 , I know I can be a real ******* sometimes.

 

[nuth88]

I mean you KNOW I wanted softturtles Aro, but I knew that in the next few months when he would need a bigger tank then I could provide in the time....I passed. It was hard but it was the right thing......But Damn, I wanted that fish, and had I been 20 years younger, would I have had the brains to do what was best for the fish? I would like to say yeah, but youth is wasted on the young. Lets not blow smoke, I would have had that aro so fast, because before I learned "Common Sense", I had none (and some here may say I still lack for it)

My 2nd point was that without naming names, there is a member who loves Red Devils, Dovii's or something, I just can't remember, and he may or may not have a pond, whatever, but when he does ask a question, some people always go back to the "well don't you have a pond" and something of that effect, now right, wrong or whatever, the guy ask's a ? and people are always bringing up what he, may or may not have...That is what keeps people from truly saying what they may or may not have, I call it (and some of the guys around here who are members) "The Law of the Irwins" kind of a here we go again type of thing....

Those are the guys who I try to stay away from....

You are a ******* sometimes, but I am all the time!!! LOL!

That's my .02...........

Nuth88: You bring up something else entirely. People giving advice based on what one member has said or personal beliefs that are not researched or learned from experiance. Generally we all commonly believe the same thing as far as how to humanely keep fish. But there are a few who have their own ideas that go so far against the grain that advice shouldn't be given as it's not wise.

I think too much immaturity gets in the way sometimes when someone gets a rtc for free, or buys more fish when they're tanks are undersized compared to what should properly house a certain fish. And everyone's "yeah!" for it but not thinking about the long run. If I had a dime for everytime I heard someone ask how long they can growout a fish that gets 2-3-4ft in a small tank because that's the biggest tank they can have, I'd be a millionaire. Some people seem not to know how to realize what's best for the fish.

As far as stocking. There will always be someone to push the boundrys. But the people who success at it IMO will usually be the experianced who have suffered losses and learned from them. I don't think repairs 1st tank was his 265g with all the cichlids. It's trial and error and I would never want to see someone just getting into the hobby try something like that.

As far as people buying large growing fish for small tanks, that's sorta the way the hobby gets started for alot of people. You buy a 30g or 55g and grow some fish out and realize you want more. But there are people who overstock and just don't care because of an "Oh well" attitude. Those people are entirely different and IMO the people who really upset me as to me they're not true hobbiest's. Also along the same lines the people who think breeding a pair of fish in a tank full of other fish is a great idea.

I am a firm believer that if you can't reasonable care for a fish and provide it the space that commonly should be allowed you should get rid of it. Some people hate to hear that though.

My .02 , I know I can be a real ******* sometimes.

 

[xEchOx]

My purpose, to simply question the mindset. A 40 gallon tank is too small for a pacu, not a 40 gallon will *eventually* be too small for a pacu. As I said, when sombody goes trolling for the answer they want i.e. "yeah, that would be okay for awhile", there will always be the one yahoo that will give it to them.

You have a point, but again I say what about that one person who would upgrade when necessary? "A 30 gallon tank is too small for an oscar" which I agree with whole heartedly, but I again would not be in the hobby if it weren't for 'temporary' tanks.

I guess you have to look at the big picture. If you tell 12 ignorant fools that a 30g tank is too small for an oscar, and they do it anyway, is it worth telling that one responsible person the same thing, if they decide not to join the hobby at all?

My point is this- every hobby has its idiots, toe dippers, (people who like what they see, but aren't willing to work for it), and trolls. Is there a way to get rid of them? Is there a way to stop what they are doing? Are they punished for doing wrong to the pets that they condemn? Most of the time the answer is 'No'.

I say we look for the ones who are willing, and share with them, rather than be short sided with everyone, and lose possible future hobbyists. Just my 02 cents.

 

[nuth88]

If they leave the Hobby, then maybe, JUST FREAKIN MAYBE, Ill be able to find the Juvi Cubans I have been looking for! LOL!

Actually in Truth as you said, we all have to start somewhere, we just don't out and but 125's and bigger for our first tank.....

anyone got a spare 300 I could use???

Gallon, not Dollar!! LOL!



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You have a point, but again I say what about that one person who would upgrade when necessary? "A 30 gallon tank is too small for an oscar" which I agree with whole heartedly, but I again would not be in the hobby if it weren't for 'temporary' tanks.

I guess you have to look at the big picture. If you tell 12 ignorant fools that a 30g tank is too small for an oscar, and they do it anyway, is it worth telling that one responsible person the same thing, if they decide not to join the hobby at all?

My point is this- every hobby has its idiots, toe dippers, (people who like what they see, but aren't willing to work for it), and trolls. Is there a way to get rid of them? Is there a way to stop what they are doing? Are they punished for doing wrong to the pets that they condemn? Most of the time the answer is 'No'.

I say we look for the ones who are willing, and share with them, rather than be short sided with everyone, and lose possible future hobbyists. Just my 02 cents.

 

[carpediem]

No Flame intention at all.....

Yeah, I know bro... S'all good

 

[carpediem]

I think we're forgetting something. Just because you tell someone they can't keep a pacu in a 40 gallon tank doesn't mean they won't get into the hobby. There are PLENTY of fish that will do just fine in a 40 gallon tank for their whole life.

I used to keep snakes, kings and milks mostly. I used to go to a local reptile expo because there was a guy there that sold frozen rodents at a really good price. There were vendors there with a lot of beautiful animals and I would sometimes buy, sometimes just look. I became totally turned off on the whole hobby because of some of the crap I ran into there. People keeping Burmese Pythons and Green Anacondas in wooden boxes. That's just crazy (and cruel). I actually saw a guy there with a 20 gallon long full of Nile Crocodiles. Nile friggin Crocodiles!!! You know that every single one of those reptiles was doomed to a short life in a cramped space. Who the heck has the facilities to take care of a Nile Croc? You going to buy it a goat every two weeks? I sold my snakes and got out of the hobby. I just couldn't tolerate the mis-information and lack of scruples. I saw too many kids taking home snakes they would never be able to care for. This is not a shot at responsible reptile owners (I know there are a lot of you out there). I was just turned off by what I saw from some of the people.

I'm not saying we should discourage people from buying fish (I sell fish for God's sake). I just think that it's important to promote *GOOD* information. Tell someone that a 40 gallon tank is way way way too small for a pacu. If they buy the pacu anyway (which they often will) then shame on them but props to you for promoting responsibility in this hobby we all love so much.

Promote good information every time, in every situation. You can't go wrong by telling the truth.

 

[Bderick67]

Well... I beleive "grow out" or "temporary" are a necessary part of our hobby.

I just can't imagine what the 300 gallon tank that I will have this summer would look like stocked with 1- 4" silver arowana, 4- 1.5 inch red bay snooks and a 5' fire eel. Think that tank would leave alot to be desired. But with grow out tanks it will instead house(estimated sizes) a 18-20" silver aro, 4 6-7" red bay snooks and hopefully a fire eel of some size.

I think education on general good fish keeping habits to be much more important. I'm sure there are many more fish living in proper sized tanks with non water changing sespool conditions, than younger fish living in grow out or temporary tanks.

 

[nuth88]

I'm not saying we should discourage people from buying fish (I sell fish for God's sake). I just think that it's important to promote *GOOD* information.

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Just keep them away from my Damn Cubans!!!

 

[carpediem]

Well... I beleive "grow out" or "temporary" are a necessary part of our hobby.

I just can't imagine what the 300 gallon tank that I will have this summer would look like stocked with 1- 4" silver arowana, 4- 1.5 inch red bay snooks and a 5' fire eel. Think that tank would leave alot to be desired. But with grow out tanks it will instead house(estimated sizes) a 18-20" silver aro, 4 6-7" red bay snooks and hopefully a fire eel of some size.

I think education on general good fish keeping habits to be much more important. I'm sure there are many more fish living in proper sized tanks with non water changing sespool conditions, than younger fish living in grow out or temporary tanks.

Think you're sort of missing the bus

How often do you see this conversation on *any* fish forum:

JoeFishKeeper: I got a pacu, two red devils, a polypterus, 12 silver dollars (for dither fish) and a breeding pair of convicts in a 55 gallon tank. I saw this sweet Green Terror at petsmart for $8. Do you think he would do okay with my guys?

MrResponsible: No

MrsResponsible: Your tank is overstocked as it is

BabyResponsible: I've been looking for some silver dollars, you want to sell some of those.

And a handful of other posts by people telling JoeFishKeeper that it's not a good idea with absolutely no response from JoeFishKeeper at all. Then suddenly...

JohnnyKillsAlot: Dude, he'd be fine... I have 2 koi, a Frontosa, 2 Oscars, and a Nile Crocodile in a 40 gallon breeder and they're FINE.

JoeFishKeeper: Ok, cool, thanks a lot JohnnyKillsAlot! I can't wait to go get him



I'm not pointing fingers at responsible hobbyists who keep growout tanks (I have them). I'm saying that it is our responsibility, as responsible hobiests, to promote the best information.