Disinfecting

[nzafi]

duanes i don't follow why the media and filter in the hospital tank would be a problem. After medicating the hell out of the entire tank I would think the cause would be dead. If the Aimara has become an a symptomatic carrier I'm screwed regardless.

 

[duanes]

I may just be paranoid, but if only one resistant individual bacteria survives, it may take a year, or a month, but the cycle can begin again.
It is my understanding that in order to get fish to market at a faster rate, FH breeders and some catfish farmers have been throwing antibiotics at their stock, and keeping temps up to achieve faster growth (anything above 82'F is favored by columnaris), creating antibiotic resistant strains.
Since columnaris will survive, and remain dormant sequestered in an impermeable cell wall/membrane, even in damp mud for extensive lengths of time, the idea that infective cells could be survive in filter media is (to me) not very far fetched.

 

[nzafi]

Decided I need way too much bleach to keep the 180g cycling. Got to the shop and it just didn't seem reasonable. Will leave 27g of water in the tank and toss in 3G of bleach. Will just drop the filters in without them running and will toss the media. Biomax for ac110s isn't that much.

 

[Vicegrip]

10 to 1 ratio is off the chart. the bleach requirements you are calculating are way way way past lethal dose. At those levels you will simply increase the unwanted effects of a strong oxidizer. Store bought bleach is most often 3% free active Cl. 2 tablespoons into a gallon will put the water a bit over 200PPM. 200 ppm is a 20 to one overkill.

 

[nzafi]

Reading the box looks it's a 1/2 cup to 1 gallon ratio which means I need more like 5.5g of bleach for 180g tank.

small miss calculation on my part

 

[Vicegrip]

That is for a surface contact solution. Killing everything IN a solution takes far less. Trust me 200 ppm everything made with proteins (all living things as we know it) will be very dead. Contact time counts as well. A wipe across a surface that dries is short contact time. Soaking in it for two hours with the pumps running is forever for the bugs you listed. Clean out as much bio material you can, toss everything you suspected contact with the tank in and add Cl to 200. Make up some with a bit more cl to it and wipe that on all the surfaces that are close to water but not submerged.


Drain let dry and done.

Clean good water is the key to keeping fish The fish will be the infection vector.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; About a year and a half ago I cleaned my tanks with a bleach solution. I threw all the equipment and gravel in buckets and soaked in a Clorox solution. I also cleaned the tanks with a Clorox solution. I used a less concentrated solution than you plan over a couple of days. All of the hard equipment survived and the sponge material did as well.

After a soaking in the Clorox and a good rinse I set up my tanks one at a time. After getting a tank set up and equipment running with everything except fish I dosed it with Prime ( SAFE will work as well).

You will be starting the cycle from scratch again as well.

One other thought. There had to be an initial source of the infection. I might get my new fish, plants and other live stock from a different source than before. If the local fish shop you used before has not done a cleaning then their stock may still be contaminated.

Good luck

 

[nzafi]

Vicegrip do you think there will be a problem with letting the tank run 1-2 days with the bleach in it? I'm guessing if I leave the filters running then all of media should be saved instead of buying new media. What about airs tones? In worried about all the tiny pores getting cleaned.

 

[RD.]

Just do what Vicegrip suggests, you are using way too much bleach at 10:1.

It is my understanding that in order to get fish to market at a faster rate, FH breeders and some catfish farmers have been throwing antibiotics at their stock, and keeping temps up to achieve faster growth (anything above 82'F is favored by columnaris), creating antibiotic resistant strains.

The overuse of antibiotics by commercial fisheries (around the world) has been taking place for several decades, hence the reason for today's superbugs. This take place in both fish (and shell fish such as shrimp) raised for human consumption, as well as farms raising ornamental species of fish. It's not just FH breeders, and catfish farms that have created this mess.

I posted the following a few yrs back, shortly after this paper came out.

Imported ornamental fish are colonized with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23294440/

Abstract
There has been growing concern about the overuse of antibiotics in the ornamental fish industry and its possible effect on the increasing drug resistance in both commensal and pathogenic organisms in these fish. The aim of this study was to carry out an assessment of the diversity of bacteria, including pathogens, in ornamental fish species imported into North America and to assess their antibiotic resistance. Kidney samples were collected from 32 freshwater ornamental fish of various species, which arrived to an importing facility in Portland, Oregon from Colombia, Singapore and Florida. Sixty-four unique bacterial colonies were isolated and identified by PCR using bacterial 16S primers and DNA sequencing. Multiple isolates were identified as bacteria with potential to cause disease in both fish and humans. The antibiotic resistance profile of each isolate was performed for nine different antibiotics. Among them, cefotaxime (16% resistance among isolates) was the antibiotic associated with more activity, while the least active was tetracycline (77% resistant). Knowing information about the diversity of bacteria in imported ornamental fish, as well as the resistance profiles for the bacteria will be useful in more effectively treating clinical infected fish, and also potential zoonoses in the future.

© 2013 John Wiley & Sons Ltd.

Ornamental fish industry faces problems with antibiotic resistance
college of veterinary medicine01/15/2013


NEWPORT, Ore. – The $15 billion ornamental fish industry faces a global problem with antibiotic resistance, a new study concludes, raising concern that treatments for fish diseases may not work when needed – and creating yet another mechanism for exposing humans to antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

The risk to humans is probably minor unless they frequently work with fish or have compromised immune systems, researchers said, although transmission of disease from tropical fish has been shown to occur. More serious is the risk to this industry, which has grown significantly in recent years, and is now a $900 million annual business in the United States.

There are few regulations in the U.S. or elsewhere about treating ornamental fish with antibiotics, experts say. Antibiotics are used routinely, such as when fish are facing stress due to transport, whether or not they have shown any sign of disease.

“We expected to find some antibiotic resistance, but it was surprising to find such high levels, including resistance in some cases where the antibiotic is rarely used,” said Tim Miller-Morgan, a veterinary aquatics specialist with Oregon State University. “We appear to already have set ourselves up for some pretty serious problems within the industry.”

In the new study, 32 freshwater fish of various species were tested for resistance to nine different antibiotics, and some resistance was found to every antibiotic. The highest level of resistance, 77 percent, was found with the common antibiotic tetracycline. The fish were tested in Portland, Ore., after being transported from Colombia, Singapore and Florida.

Findings of the study were reported in the Journal of Fish Diseases.

The bacterial infections found in the fish included Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, Staphylococcus and others, several of which can infect both fish and humans.

“The range of resistance is often quite disturbing,” the scientists wrote in their report. “It is not uncommon to see resistance to a wide range of antibiotic classes, including beta-lactams, macrolides, tetracyclines, sulphonamides, quinolones, cephalosporins and chloramphenicol.”

Problems and concerns with antibiotic resistance have been growing for years, Miller-Morgan said. The nature of the resistance can range widely, causing an antibiotic to lose some, or all of its effectiveness.

There have been documented cases of disease transmission from fish to humans, he said, but it’s not common. It would be a particular concern for anyone with a weak or compromised immune system, he pointed out, and people with such health issues should discuss tropical fish management with their physician. Workers who constantly handle tropical fish may also face a higher level of risk.

From an industry perspective, losses of fish to bacterial disease may become increasingly severe, he said, because antibiotics will lose their effectiveness.

Anyone handling tropical fish can use some basic precautions that should help, Miller-Morgan said. Consumers should buy only healthy fish; avoid cleaning tanks with open cuts or sores on their hands; use gloves; immediately remove sick fish from tanks; consider quarantining all new fish in a separate tank for 30 days; wash hands after working with fish; and never use antibiotics in a fish tank unless actually treating a known fish disease caused by bacteria.

“We don’t think individuals should ever use antibiotics in a random, preventive or prophylactic method,” Miller-Morgan said. “Even hobbyists can learn more about how to identify tropical fish parasites and diseases, and use antibiotics only if a bacterial disease is diagnosed.”

On an industry level, he said, considerable progress could be made with improvements in fish husbandry, better screening and handling, and use of quarantines, rather than antibiotics, to reduce fish disease.

The ornamental fish industry is large and diverse, including trade of more than 6,000 species of freshwater and marine fish from more than 100 different countries. About half the supply originates in Asia, and freshwater farming of ornamental fish is a rapidly growing industry.

Also increasing is the number of trained fish veterinarians, who can help fish hobbyists to reduce disease loss and save treasured pets. More information is available from the World Aquatic Veterinary Medical Association and the American Association of Fish Veterinarians. A database of aquatic veterinarians is available online, at http://aquavetmed.info
.

Good luck!

 

[nzafi]

RD. yup. I did another calculation and I actually only need 3/4g to hit 200ppm. Will sterilize sometime this week.