EBJD Breeding Project

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east_bay;4779020; said:
so i bought 2 ebjd at 1 inch who the parents are ebjd x blue gene so does that mean my 2 ebjds have the gene needed
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You'll want to get depending on if your EBJD's are male or female... a male or female that carry the blue gene. 2 EBJD's do not produce viable offspring. Most of the time they don't even make it to free swimming. It'll be a while before you know for sure, and you're going to want to make sure that your EBJD has size on the blue gene carrying Jack Dempsey.

If they're just an inch, you've still got a good 7-9 months before it'd be ready for a breeding project. You want to make sure they're not deformed (deformities don't always show until they're a bit bigger). Also make sure the BGJD's would be from a completely different bloodline.
 
east_bay;4779356; said:
so should i use one of my ebjds to breed with a totally different bloodline jack dempsey
and will that b a start
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Yes, you'll want a regular Jack Dempsey that carries the blue gene. First you're going to want to wait and see if you have a male or female and this could take some time. Then find someone with a Jack Dempsey that carries the blue gene from a completely different source that is smaller than your EBJD. This way you're not inbreeding them and putting deformed EBJDs out there.
 
so theres a breeder im my arae selling 3.5 inch blue gene females for $20 and then if i buy a blue gene male from a completly different breeder and breed 2 differnent blue genes will the fry be ebjd or wut
 
i read those already but im asking if i have to completly different blue gene from 2 differnet breeders if the fry would be part ebjd so im technically skipping a big proscess
 
east_bay;4781432; said:
so theres a breeder im my arae selling 3.5 inch blue gene females for $20 and then if i buy a blue gene male from a completly different breeder and breed 2 differnent blue genes will the fry be ebjd or wut
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a quarter of the fry from a blue gene to blue gene pairing will be EBJD's, the rest will be a mix of blue genes and normals
 
east_bay;4781565; said:
i read those already but im asking if i have to completly different blue gene from 2 differnet breeders if the fry would be part ebjd so im technically skipping a big proscess
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Yes - this is by far the best way. Get 2 BGJDs that are unrelated and start from there. If you can afford it, get 2 females and 2 males. Breed them and keep a log book and determine which combo produce the best looking fry. Thats what i did. Takes some time, but most good things do.
 
east_bay;4781603; said:
and if i breed one of the 2 blue genes fry with my ebjd growout from a completly different breeder will the fry be 50/50
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Breeding EBJDs


Obtaining a pair:
Adults select their mates via a process of chasing one another around the tank and lip-locking, both of which are tests of the strength and health of the potential mate. In the aquarium it's best to have pairs of equal size (within a couple of inches) because males tend to be larger and more aggressive and can therefore do serious damage to a female that is much smaller.

Typically with cichlids, breeders obtain pairs by starting with six to eight young fish and rearing them together. Once these fish reach maturity, some fish will pair up and the remaining fish (if they are still alive!) can be rehomed.

This method is fairly guaranteed to provide you with a pair, however there are two problems specific to EBJDs...


Photo by Retrohwcm​
Problem 1:

Although it has been achieved, the general consensus is that EBJD x EBJD spawns result in non-viable fry, or at best very fragile fry that require extra special care.
Problem 2:

The procedure currently held as the best way to produce spawns of EBJDs requires pairing an EBJD with a normal JD, a process that is potentially fraught with difficulties. These difficulties can however be overcome.
I list the most common format for breeding EBJDs below:

1) One or more EBJDs are purchased with the aim of getting a male of breeding age.

2) Once the breeder EBJD male has been identified, multiple normal female JDs are purchased and put into the same tank as this male. These females MUST be smaller than the EBJD male, otherwise they are likely to cause him serious damage as a result of their higher aggression levels.

3) With luck, the male EBJD pairs with one of the females and the rest can be rehomed.

4) This pair is allowed to breed and some fry are reared with the hope of getting a female.

Now for some science:

If we call the electric blue gene 'b' and the normal gene (which is dominant) 'B' then the male has the genotype 'bb' and the female has the genotype 'BB'.

If we put this into a Punnet square (below: male on the top row, female in the left left column) then the proportion of each offspring genotype can be seen to be 100% Bb.

bb BBb BbB Bb Bb

All the fry will be heterzygous for colouration (i.e. carrying one normal 'B' gene and one electric blue 'b' gene), meaning that they will look like normal JDs, but be carriers for the 'b' gene.

5) To get EBJD fry, a female from this first spawn must be reared to breeding age and then mated to an EBJD male (preferably not her father to avoid inbreeding problems).

This will produce the following offspring proportions:

bbBBb Bbb bbbb

So 50% of the fry will be Bb and look like normal JDs but carry the 'b' gene for electric blue; and 50% will be bb i.e. EBJDs!

6) At this point the commercial breeders cull the Bb fry and raise the EBJD fry to sell at hugely marked up prices. Whether or not you cull the heterozygous fry, it is important to separate them from the EBJD fry because the heterozygous fry are much more aggressive than their bb siblings and rapidly outcompete them for food, resulting in the EBJDs dying from a combination of stress and starvation.

Other combinations:

If it is possible to get EBJD fry from a male EBJD and a female normal JD, then it should also be possible to get EBJD fry from a female EBJD mated to a male normal JD. The biggest problem here is making sure that the male normal JD doesn't kill the female EBJD as males are much more aggressive than females in both normal JDs and EBJDs; and normal JDs are much more aggressive than EBJDs. I suppose the most important thing would be to ensure that any males placed in the tank with the female EBJD were quite a lot smaller, to minimise the effects of aggression. Even so I would keep a very close eye on proceedings!

The Breeding Tank:

The larger the better. If the male gets too rough, the female needs room to get away. Decorate the tank with at least one cave and plastic (or well protected) plants for cover. Provide a flat rock and perhaps a large plant pot as egg-laying sites. Dempseys will redecorate a tank to their liking once breeding is on the cards.
The addition of floating plants can help to remove unwanted chemicals from the water and will also encourage the growth of infusoria (microscopic organisms which make a great first food for fry). Once freeswimming the fry can be left with the parents for a while and fed on newly hatched brine shrimp (although they may take the frozen version) or finely crushed flake. Once the parents lose interest in their brood, the fry should be moved to rearing quarters for growing out. Don't raise more fry than you can reasonably rehome!

Finally, for the best advice:

Check out Ormed's fantastic forum threads on breeding EBJDs. I have provided links on the 'Links' page. This man deserves a medal!
 
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