echidna rhodochilus white cheek moray

[john_lord_b3]

Indeed that is a good practice which is what I do I never advise anyone to do such things...

I've done some research with and talked a lot with aquarium curators and a marine biologist professor in I think the southern California area (orange county I believe) a few years ago and there are a lot of marine fish you can buy at your local fish store that can live out their full lives in close to freshwater quite comfortably. Fimbriated morays are one example I've seen in the past on here. Someone said with full confidence that they couldn't even tolerate brackish when I've seen one over 3 feet long and over 7 pounds in 5 ppt which is VERY low salinity most fw aquarium fish can live in. I've personally grown cobia, S&S puffers, dog face puffers, emperor snappers, panther groupers and more in 2-5ppt. At the end of the day I'm not going to go out of my way to talk about it or share it because many people on this forum that do a quick general google search and act like they know everything when they just keep simple cichlids on a small scale and don't really know anything about modern aquaculture. Just thought I'd say that because there were a couple threads where you were completely right and a few people were being ignorant lol...

Well, this is the era of googleology So, sometimes we see hilarious examples of people with actual experiences got ridiculed by people who used google (without actual experiences).

Again you're right about many marine species has a wide range of adaptability. The same cannot be said about freshwater species though. Most freshwater fishes will die in brackish and full marine, while many marine fish can actually thrives in a wide range of salinities. I think it's due to hunting/eating habits; marine fishes regularly enters the estuarium to chase their preys, and gradually overtime, certain populations of such fishes developed higher adaptability to survive in NSW, brackish and NFW. But again, a lot of these travellers will eventually return to the sea.

As for Gymnothorax Fimbriatus, I think fishbase.org has already declared that these fishes do indeed lives in both marine and brackish, and local moray lovers here also in the habit of keep them in both environments.

http://www.fishbase.se/summary/gymnothorax-fimbriatus.html

With all being said and done, it has been months since I keep my brackish aquarium salinity in 10 ppt (around 1.007-1.008sg), so those are the kind of salinity that I am comfortable in keeping my morays.

By the way, How did you managed to keep marine species in 5 ppt? Did you acclimatize them slowly overtime, or do they have such capabilities built-in? Or did you use some kind of chemistry tricks?

 

[crenicichla444]

Well, this is the era of googleology So, sometimes we see hilarious examples of people with actual experiences got ridiculed by people who used google (without actual experiences).

Again you're right about many marine species has a wide range of adaptability. The same cannot be said about freshwater species though. Most freshwater fishes will die in brackish and full marine, while many marine fish can actually thrives in a wide range of salinities. I think it's due to hunting/eating habits; marine fishes regularly enters the estuarium to chase their preys, and gradually overtime, certain populations of such fishes developed higher adaptability to survive in NSW, brackish and NFW. But again, a lot of these travellers will eventually return to the sea.

As for Gymnothorax Fimbriatus, I think fishbase.org has already declared that these fishes do indeed lives in both marine and brackish, and local moray lovers here also in the habit of keep them in both environments.

http://www.fishbase.se/summary/gymnothorax-fimbriatus.html

With all being said and done, it has been months since I keep my brackish aquarium salinity in 10 ppt (around 1.007-1.008sg), so those are the kind of salinity that I am comfortable in keeping my morays.

By the way, How did you managed to keep marine species in 5 ppt? Did you acclimatize them slowly overtime, or do they have such capabilities built-in? Or did you use some kind of chemistry tricks?

Yeah man a lot of those fish that can do both fw and sw go to estuaries/lagoons for shelter from larger predators, then go to the ocean when they get bigger because there are more nutrients in the ocean. Nothing to do with when they get older they can't tolerate it but then again each species is different but some people make the generalization that baby fish can live in fw but adults need sw and can't think differently lol. So in a fish tank that is kept clean and they are well fed there is no reason for the fish to not thrive still.

Personally I believe that there's more to it than just specific gravity... Many people think it's JUST the amount of salt content in the water that makes it possible. I believe it's a combination of pH, KH, GH (the dissolved magnesium and calcium ion concentration) and other trace minerals. While I don't keep track of it I always make sure to have a lot of what used to be "live rock" (that's what we call rock brought in from the ocean sold for saltwater tanks in the states), sand or other types of rock that will make the alkalinity, pH and GH increase, add a little epsom salt, maybe add some buffer and obviously have a naturally high water pH. A lot of the commercial marine salt mixtures have other trace minerals in them that helps. I changed the water out slowly but some fish can go a lot faster than others and be fine. The fimbriated moray for example even though they're naturally found in such conditions, the only ones commonly available to us in the states are collected in full marine in the indopacific. I've heard you have to go slow with them or else they'll get cloudy eyes. However with stars and stripes puffers you can go from full strength seawater to 6ppt in a week no ill effects but personally wouldn't do it again even though it went smoothly.

 

[john_lord_b3]

Yeah man a lot of those fish that can do both fw and sw go to estuaries/lagoons for shelter from larger predators, then go to the ocean when they get bigger because there are more nutrients in the ocean. Nothing to do with when they get older they can't tolerate it but then again each species is different but some people make the generalization that baby fish can live in fw but adults need sw and can't think differently lol. So in a fish tank that is kept clean and they are well fed there is no reason for the fish to not thrive still.

Personally I believe that there's more to it than just specific gravity... Many people think it's JUST the amount of salt content in the water that makes it possible. I believe it's a combination of pH, KH, GH (the dissolved magnesium and calcium ion concentration) and other trace minerals. While I don't keep track of it I always make sure to have a lot of what used to be "live rock" (that's what we call rock brought in from the ocean sold for saltwater tanks in the states), sand or other types of rock that will make the alkalinity, pH and GH increase, add a little epsom salt, maybe add some buffer and obviously have a naturally high water pH. A lot of the commercial marine salt mixtures have other trace minerals in them that helps. I changed the water out slowly but some fish can go a lot faster than others and be fine. The fimbriated moray for example even though they're naturally found in such conditions, the only ones commonly available to us in the states are collected in full marine in the indopacific. I've heard you have to go slow with them or else they'll get cloudy eyes. However with stars and stripes puffers you can go from full strength seawater to 6ppt in a week no ill effects but personally wouldn't do it again even though it went smoothly.

Last week my supplier/procurer just fished out these lovely morays out of an estuarium in Java. Lots of G. Fimbriatus, and even some rare beauties like the polkadot (Xantophilos) and the Polyzona.




I think the secret of why we Indonesians could keep them in brackish, is the fact that we caught them in brackish and we uses the same water from where we caught them to fill our aquarium. So we got the important trace elements in the water (and the sand), just like you mentioned above.

 

[crenicichla444]

Last week my supplier/procurer just fished out these lovely morays out of an estuarium in Java. Lots of G. Fimbriatus, and even some rare beauties like the polkadot (Xantophilos) and the Polyzona.


View attachment 1315592

I think the secret of why we Indonesians could keep them in brackish, is the fact that we caught them in brackish and we uses the same water from where we caught them to fill our aquarium. So we got the important trace elements in the water (and the sand), just like you mentioned above.

Wow I need to find a plug for some xantophilus and polyzona... i remember Wes brought some in years ago. Maybe I'll be able to find some in the marine sections of an aquarium store or order some online in full marine.

Do you know of any other morays that frequent your local estuaries that aren't common in the U.S. fish trade? (G.Tile, Polyuranodon, etc.)

 

[john_lord_b3]

Wow I need to find a plug for some xantophilus and polyzona... i remember Wes brought some in years ago. Maybe I'll be able to find some in the marine sections of an aquarium store or order some online in full marine.

Do you know of any other morays that frequent your local estuaries that aren't common in the U.S. fish trade? (G.Tile, Polyuranodon, etc.)

Certainly. I own two G. Polyuranodons, I saw G. Tiles on sale, I owned two Uropterygius Micropterus (sold them back to the store), I know a guy who owns a Strophidon Sathete (he know where to fish them out).

G. Pictis and G. Meleagris is also common here, but I assumed that they are also easily found in the USA, right?

 

[crenicichla444]

Certainly. I own two G. Polyuranodons, I saw G. Tiles on sale, I owned two Uropterygius Micropterus (sold them back to the store), I know a guy who owns a Strophidon Sathete (he know where to fish them out).

G. Pictis and G. Meleagris is also common here, but I assumed that they are also easily found in the USA, right?

Awesome yeah I’ve had polyuranodons and tiles, almost got sathetes and rhodichilus. The uropterygius there’s no way I’m finding that in the states. G. Pictus is quite uncommon here but Meleagris pop up here and there. Fortunately I think meleagris is more attractive and would coexist/hold it’s own better with a fimbriated moray since it’s not an echidna group moray or a snake eel haha.

Fish base goes as far as to say that G. Meleagris are found in full on freshwater... wow

 

[john_lord_b3]

Awesome yeah I’ve had polyuranodons and tiles, almost got sathetes and rhodichilus. The uropterygius there’s no way I’m finding that in the states. G. Pictus is quite uncommon here but Meleagris pop up here and there. Fortunately I think meleagris is more attractive and would coexist/hold it’s own better with a fimbriated moray since it’s not an echidna group moray or a snake eel haha.

Fish base goes as far as to say that G. Meleagris are found in full on freshwater... wow

I actually bought a G. Meleagris back then, but I returned it to the store when I realized that it could grow biiiiiig.... Too bad, as it is already a BW/FW capable moray, and very pretty, with its white mouth and interesting skin battern.

G. Pictis are very common here, both in BW and in the sea. A guy offered me to buy a pair of them not long ago, but again, most of Gymnothorax could grow biiig... Here they are, in FW btw. I don't have aquarium big enough for them.

I returned my Uropterygus Micropteruses back to the store because they are too small and sluggish compared to other morays in my aquarium, they kept on getting their food robbed by the larger morays. So with sadness I have to let them return to their former homes.

 

[crenicichla444]

I actually bought a G. Meleagris back then, but I returned it to the store when I realized that it could grow biiiiiig.... Too bad, as it is already a BW/FW capable moray, and very pretty, with its white mouth and interesting skin battern.

G. Pictis are very common here, both in BW and in the sea. A guy offered me to buy a pair of them not long ago, but again, most of Gymnothorax could grow biiig... Here they are, in FW btw. I don't have aquarium big enough for them.

I returned my Uropterygus Micropteruses back to the store because they are too small and sluggish compared to other morays in my aquarium, they kept on getting their food robbed by the larger morays. So with sadness I have to let them return to their former homes.

True I feel you man. A lot of morays however don't need absolutely massive tanks. You do just fine with feeding them once or even twice a week, and I heard from a sw fish expert that many morays will live in the same cave or hole for their whole life unless chased out by another eel or something else. They're like snakes in a sense that they can squeeze into and live in small confines. However morays are messy so obviously having extra water volume does help to dissipate the waste but if you stay on top of water changes then it's fine.

That pair of G. Pictus is beautiful, a lot better looking than the pictures I could find on the internet. Hopefully I can snag one of those too along with a meleagris in the future. Uropterygus snake eels are cool but yeah it seems like it would get not only out competed for food but also hiding spots. Then again I've never kept a snake eel either but gymnothorax are kinda territorial...

 

[john_lord_b3]

True I feel you man. A lot of morays however don't need absolutely massive tanks. You do just fine with feeding them once or even twice a week, and I heard from a sw fish expert that many morays will live in the same cave or hole for their whole life unless chased out by another eel or something else. They're like snakes in a sense that they can squeeze into and live in small confines. However morays are messy so obviously having extra water volume does help to dissipate the waste but if you stay on top of water changes then it's fine.

That pair of G. Pictus is beautiful, a lot better looking than the pictures I could find on the internet. Hopefully I can snag one of those too along with a meleagris in the future. Uropterygus snake eels are cool but yeah it seems like it would get not only out competed for food but also hiding spots. Then again I've never kept a snake eel either but gymnothorax are kinda territorial...

<3 thank you for your understanding. I purposefully limited myself to moray species that (1) doesn't grow to monstrous sizes; (2) not so fierce; and (3) strong enough to be acclimatized to brackish water. This unfortunately eliminates most of Gymnothorax species.

Which is a pity, as many Gymnothoraxes that are rather rare in other countries are not so rare here. Here is a bucketful of baby morays just caught from a river estuarium in Java, this is last year's picture. You can identify them easily.



All of those are proven to be capable of living in brackish, at least when they're young. But, as you have said somewhere before, it is not clear whether they will go to the ocean when they're grown because (1) they can't survive in brackish as adults; or (2) they go by their own volition, since after they're fully grown, they can tackle larger preys in the open sea.



Cute baby Pictus, eh?

 

[john_lord_b3]

Midnight snack time, the white-cheeks were full, and Eyal was pissed