electric blue dempsey mystery

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Female blue dempseys are few and far between, most blues are male (IMO). Getting a fertile male has been my problem, the female 'normal' was ok. I'm pretty sure they're not hybrid, they're too uniformed in appearance, and what on earth would they be hybrid of anyway? Ormed's juveniles look exactly like other 'blues' from different sources, and the genetics suggest normal recessive traits (for colour). There may be other genetic 'problems' linked to the blue gene that we don't understand yet (such as fertility, sex-linking, health, fin growth, etc), but hopefully they'll become clear the more people that are lucky enough to breed them.
 
Blue Dempsey's are rare because they are a mutation of the normal Dempsey, and not a hybrid. If it was a hybrid we would simply have to mate the two fish used to get a Blue Depmsey. But. Since it is a mutation, it is much much harder to get/find a Blue Dempsey. Because they are so hard to get/find, Blue Dempsey's would demand a much higher price.
 
rottbo said:
my breeding pair of jacks has never had a blue baby and they have had 15 batches of fry so far...
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Thanks for the info.

I agree that if we know what fish to mix then the blue dempsey would be cheap and very common. But they are new. No one I know has tried either.

I'm really surprised that only a few think they could be a hybrid. Even though they have the same issues as all other hybrids. BTW, I don't know of a single person who has a male EBD that they have breed successfully with a regular female dempsey. That is another reason why I think they are a hybrid. Do some research on the red parot cichlid. You'll see what I'm talking about.
 
fsc46 said:
Thanks for the info.

I agree that if we know what fish to mix then the blue dempsey would be cheap and very common. But they are new. No one I know has tried either.

I'm really surprised that only a few think they could be a hybrid. Even though they have the same issues as all other hybrids. BTW, I don't know of a single person who has a male EBD that they have breed successfully with a regular female dempsey. That is another reason why I think they are a hybrid. Do some research on the red parot cichlid. You'll see what I'm talking about.
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Check out www.cichlid-forum.com Ormed posted his entire EBD experience. He has a male, and bred it to a regular female dempsey. He has pics and everything:grinyes: It is definitely a color morph, and not a hybrid. I am not trying to pick a fight, IMO it has been proven by ormed. Cool fish nonetheless. :headbang2
 
I just got 4 juve jds from someone who had an EBJD and a regular color breed. These little guys have some of the coolest colors on them with bits of red and blue on the fins. The person who had them didn't have the best water parameters but now that they've been in my tank awhile the colors are really starting to stand out.
 
Here' one for ya
I've got about 4 large jd's carrying the blue gene and 5 that electric blues.
i also have some regular JD's
The blue gene male has apparently formed a pair with one of the blue gene females
if it's simple mendelian genetics i should get 25% electric blues correct?
i suppose the other option would be to pull the big male and let the female pair with one of the electric blues.
Most of these are from a different source.
I think they are all originally from very limited stock which would explain the lack of vigor'
so outcrossing to regular JD's and then crossing the resultant fry to a different electric blue
The guy i got em from on aquabid seemed to know his genetics but out of 13 fish 5 were pretty mutated looking indicating a high level of inbreeding...
i guess once i find homes for my 2 rays i'll work these some more

Sheeze i rearrange fish like some women rearrange furniture....
Then again what furniture?
Some days i feel like a freshwater spongebob:screwy:
 
fsc46 said:
Thanks for the info.

I agree that if we know what fish to mix then the blue dempsey would be cheap and very common. But they are new. No one I know has tried either.

I'm really surprised that only a few think they could be a hybrid. Even though they have the same issues as all other hybrids. BTW, I don't know of a single person who has a male EBD that they have breed successfully with a regular female dempsey. That is another reason why I think they are a hybrid. Do some research on the red parot cichlid. You'll see what I'm talking about.
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The topic that comes back to life from forum to forum :ROFL:


Read the orginal suppliers statements (translated through babelfish)

Record:
In the breeding ground there are used carrying breeding animals of the blue gene that differentiate little or nothing of a common Jack Dempsey. But, to be sincere with other fans or professionals who try the reproduction, it is necessary to say that, before obtaining Dempsey Blue, there was a spontaneous cross between Nandopsis (x Cichlasoma) octofasciatus and other varieties of Central American, such cíclidos as Parapetenia (x Heros) (xCichlasoma) managuense (Günter 1869, photo of above) and Heros (xCichlasoma) synspilum (Hubbs 1935, photo of below), that unfertile babies produced if one crosses them between yes.

Of the obtained copies a number existed with all the features of N. octofasciatum, some with indefinite features and others with features of Heros (xCichlasoma) managuense. Finally there discarded all those that did not have features of Jack Dempsey, for what we suppose that the appearance of the blue gene must come from some of the copies crossed with H. managuense but that they have the whole appearance of N. octofasciatum
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In the deposit carrying reproducers of the blue gene are used that are different little or nothing from a Jack common Dempsey. But, to be sincere with other fans or professionals who try the reproduction, it is necessary to say that before obtaining the Dempsey Blue, it had you cross spontaneous between Nandopsis (x Cichlasoma) octofasciatus and other cíclidos varieties of Central American, such as Parapetenia (x Heros) (xCichlasoma) to managuense(Günter 1869, photo of above) and Heros (xCichlasoma) synspilum (Hubbs 1935, photo of down), that produced infertile young if it crosses them to each other. To see note on the matter
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File:
In the deposit carrying reproducers of the blue gene are used that are different little or nothing from a Jack common Dempsey. But, to be sincere with other fans or professionals who try the reproduction, it is necessary to say that before obtaining the Dempsey Blue, it had you cross spontaneous between Nandopsis (x Cichlasoma) octofasciatus and other cíclidos varieties of Central American, such as Parapetenia (x Heros) (xCichlasoma) managuense(Günter 1869, photo of above) and Heros (xCichlasoma) synspilum (Hubbs 1935, photo of down), that infertile young produced if it crosses them to each other. To see note on the matter



Of the obtained units a number with all the characteristics of N. existed octofasciatum, some with indefinite characteristics and others with characteristics of Heros (xCichlasoma) managuense. Finally those discarded all that did not have characteristics of Jack Dempsey, reason why we suppose that the appearance of the blue gene must come from some of the units crossed managuense H. but that they have all the appearance of N. octofasciatum.
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translated from http://www.elacuarista.com/secciones/blue_dempsey2.htm for anyone who wants to see it themselves




other then that ,good luck getting to the bottom of it :grinyes:

Rapps (who's a standup guy :thumbsup: ) says they're pure
The people who started them say they're not :confused:
People from my local club toured a facility , breeding HYBRID blue dempseys for export to the U.S. :duh:
Many cichlid clubs don't let them show - calling them hybrids :headshake

Form your own oponion.
 
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