"Essay" on Drop Eye (from a physician/biologist)

[Chaitika]

I will suggest that until such a time as someone starts to do professional autopsies on properly preserved aros with DE, everything else is simply hearsay.

 

[Gshock]

So to elaborate on the trauma. This question is probably impossible to answer, but has anyone noticed what part of your aro typically strikes your canopy? I realize this is like trying to describe a lightning strike, but has anyone been lucky enough to have accurately witnessed (or better yet, filmed) this?

If my vision didnt fail, It's actually not really the head getting hit, from every jump i've seen, it's always the tip of the mouth/jaw and the tip of the nose hitting the glass. Theres also a couple videos on youtube showing aro jumps and those jumps do show that they jump vertically upwards, bashing their tip of mouth/nose into the glass.

 

[Lissaspence]

I will suggest that until such a time as someone starts to do professional autopsies on properly preserved aros with DE, everything else is simply hearsay.

It is, but I think that is what the OP was requesting.

Who really knows? Let's all talk about it and input our experiences.
This forum is absolutely one of THE BEST places to put an end to the drop eye mystery.

This way we can pool our experiences with some future autopsys and maybe make a breakthrough.

I think we should start a MFK wide experiment with anyone who would like to participate. Everyone who owns healthy aros should document in a particular thread when their aro started developing the DE and make note of all their conditions (water perams, tank size, any trauma etc.). Also if the OP is still voluntering to do the lab work maybe we could get some people to dontate their pets with DE which have passed away. Any shipping of the corpse would have to be at the owners expense though, plus some people might be opposed to having their pet cut up in the name of science. So I'm not sure how many people would actually do it. We should start a poll and see if anyone would be willing to participate.

 

[Scylla]

It is, but I think that is what the OP was requesting.



This way we can pool our experiences with some future autopsys and maybe make a breakthrough.

I think we should start a MFK wide experiment with anyone who would like to participate. Everyone who owns healthy aros should document in a particular thread when their aro started developing the DE and make note of all their conditions (water perams, tank size, any trauma etc.). Also if the OP is still voluntering to do the lab work maybe we could get some people to dontate their pets with DE which have passed away. Any shipping of the corpse would have to be at the owners expense though, plus some people might be opposed to having their pet cut up in the name of science. So I'm not sure how many people would actually do it. We should start a poll and see if anyone would be willing to participate.

Absolutely! This is what I was hoping for. I would also add to the list of conditions a closeup, macro photo of the eyes and any other obvious damage.

And I also have to agree with you about all of this being heresay. A collection of experiences we have all had is FAR from scientific. In research, these are classified as "case reports" and are given little if any weight when drawing a conclusion. BUT, enough of these case reports can sometimes generate enough data to begin a true scientific study.

(not likely, but I can dream!)

 

[ctoychik]

I have three sub-adult silver aros (close to 3' now) in a comm tank. only one have a moderate DE in one eye only (developed from quite young age)... though i recon another one is geting a buldging eye though it is not looking down ...yet. They feed from top and bottom. There are quite a few other fish in with them.

Fingers crossed that no more developments in that area - though i am sure it will happen ...

PS: an observation on looking down phenomenon - my aros (not only silvers) do not look down with their eyes often rather they tilt to one side when they are looking down (or up for that matter) at things .... very unsightly actually imo.

 

[ctoychik]

Absolutely! This is what I was hoping for. I would also add to the list of conditions a closeup, macro photo of the eyes and any other obvious damage.

And I also have to agree with you about all of this being heresay. A collection of experiences we have all had is FAR from scientific. In research, these are classified as "case reports" and are given little if any weight when drawing a conclusion. BUT, enough of these case reports can sometimes generate enough data to begin a true scientific study.

(not likely, but I can dream!)

you may be interested to see Liz's (Red Devil) thread on this particular issue. I think there are quite a lot of pix and living conditions there

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179320

 

[Crispy]

Just to throw out my aro experience... 19" silver who has had major head trauma (from jumping) at least twice (nice gash just above the eye both times)... no DE, and the gashes totally healed... he also has many low-level tankmates... as someone stated above, my aro points his head down or turns his head when he looks down.

I'm as stumped as anyone here, but a few other ?s to consider...

-has anyone's aro with DE healed?? ever??
-any small aros ever get DE?? I seem to only see this in somewhat larger/older aros.

 

[Bderick67]

Just to throw out my aro experience... 19" silver who has had major head trauma (from jumping) at least twice (nice gash just above the eye both times)... no DE, and the gashes totally healed... he also has many low-level tankmates... as someone stated above, my aro points his head down or turns his head when he looks down.

I'm as stumped as anyone here, but a few other ?s to consider...

-has anyone's aro with DE healed?? ever??
-any small aros ever get DE?? I seem to only see this in somewhat larger/older aros.

Sorry, but your aro has developed DE in it's left eye

Seen silvers develop DE as small as 12". More commonly the DE develops around 18" range. There have been claims, though I haven't seen documented proof, that aros with slight DE get better is placed in ponds.

 

[TimTheBadass]

My tank contain lots of fish as well more tha Koji's silver aro comm. Still my silver get DE. I also don't see any signs of bump or any injury around the head area and it never jump out and hit the floor. The DE started to develop when it's around 16".

The difference between your tank and koji's is that his is full of silvers swimming in the upper levels of the tank. I imagine your aro spends a lot of time looking down at it's tank mates. Koji's silvers will be constantly looking up and down at the other arowana's giving full exercise of the eye muscles.
That's just my thought's as I seem to agree that de is caused by a mixture of lack of eye activity and trauma.

On the point that aro's are still getting de in ponds there is no good description of these ponds. They could be full of fish swimming below the arowana with nothing going on above the arowana. eg. indoor ponds.

I think asians and jars are less prone to de because they are simply, different fish. They probably don't hunt quite the same as silvers. I bet they can't launch themselves into the lid with anywhere near as much power as a silver either.

Blacks are the ones that confuse me but I'm thinking that there are a hell of a lot more people keeping silvers than black therefore a lot more reported cases of de.

Also water quality has been mentioned. I'm guessing those of us that have forked out the cash for asians and black's are most likely taking extra care with our water quality. I know I take extra care since I bought my rays.

 

[yanfloist]

i've always been interested in find the truth about DE. maybe it could be a disease?? maybe something deep inside the eye.