Established filter/new cycle

[skjl47]

Nitrates is not the only issue with "old" water.....

hello; Yes to this. It is reported that fish excrete/secrete things into the water with regard to dominance and aggression. There is also the multiplying effect of mineral saturation as water evaporates. ammonia, nitrite and Nitrate concentrations are not the only reason to do WC.

 

[DN328]

Good to know! I guess the products are different. Found this http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/general-discussion/1942-cycle-with-prime-and-stability
And it says I'm good dosing simultaneously. I know on cyphos forum there was a big debate about wether bottled BB was snake oil or if it would actually do some good. I guess I'm of the mind set that $6 piece of mind is ok with me. To be completely honest the only reason I bought it was I NEEDED prime, I knew that, and low and behold next bottle over says stability to accomidate new tank syndrome with beneficial bacteria. So why not! But back on subject since prime makes me feel safest for now ill stick with prime and stability since tss wont work with prime. So do you or anyone else have any other ideas on anything I can throw in to get this healthier faster?

Again quick overview. Fry tank, bare bottom. Sponge filter, quart of matrix. 81-82 degrees give or take. Water changes every 48 hours from current tank containing 5ppm nitrates, dosing prime and stability every water change. Feeding is 3 times daily and yes i do try and remove what they dont eat

I'm a little late to this...but I think you are fine with Prime. Im sure there are equally good products, but that's what I use and seems to be doing what it soppose to - while cycling and beyond for WC. I believe Safe is the powder version.

Ive also used Stability simultaneously no ill effects...how beneficial (pun intended ;-) ) I cannot be certain. BTW, according to instructions when cycling you are to use X amount dosage on day 1, then X dosage for the next 7 days. As needed as well with WC ongoing.

 

[savannah_az]

I think the key word in the opening post is "semi-established sponge".
How long was the sponge in an established aquarium, or sump, a few days, a week, a month?
I have never used any of the quick start products, but thats because I keep filter media floating around in sumps and established tanks for at least a couple months before using it start a new tank, there is always junk floating around around just for that purpose in sumps.
I believe water changes every other, or every day to dilute ammonia buildup is your own real solution, unless the sponge had sat in use long enough.

Semi seeded as in about 10 days or so, theres actually a different thread posted about it, I was curios to see what everyone's thoughts were on if there would be enough time.

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/incoming-fry-now-what.683370/

Fresh water is the best water for water changes.....Nitrates is not the only issue with "old" water.....

The water changes should be as much and as often as to reduce the readable ammonia and nitrites to 0 at water change. And if it rises again, you do another water change. If that means 2 back to back 80% water changes every day, then it needs to be done. A routine of doing water changes every 48hrs is meaningless...as far as fish health goes. To you that may mean lots of water changes...To the fish that maybe the difference between living full long lives and or getting riddled with diseases down the line and turn belly up.

The danger in fish being exposed to any amounts of ammonia/nitrites for a period of time is not that you'll outright kill them. The danger will show up weeks, a couple of months later, when you think all is well, tank cycled and fish have survived, then the fish will start getting odd diseases due to severely weakened immune system and exposure to toxins. It has a delayed effect.

How well you're keeping the tank now will determine if those fish you've got in there will live or die in the next 6 months...It's a common misconception that if fish are still alive while fish in cycling, one is doing enough...

Having said that, the prime will help with the spikes in between water changes but only if you dose enough to neutralise the amount of ammonia/nitrites there is in the tank...

well this isn't long term, they're going in a 200+ tank with fronts that are a few inches. This is only a grow out tank until they are big enough to be ok in the tank (hopefully 2-3 months tops). I know the risk of exposing them to the nitrogen cycle amongst other things long term. Basically the 48 hour water change is only because thats the active life of the prime so I'm trying to minimize exposure.

The BB survive both in moist and aquatic environments as long as they don't dry out. They mostly live in moist soil and in water.

I gutted about 1/4 of my trickle and just let if chill in the new tank, seems to be working so far!

I'm a little late to this...but I think you are fine with Prime. Im sure there are equally good products, but that's what I use and seems to be doing what it soppose to - while cycling and beyond for WC. I believe Safe is the powder version.

Ive also used Stability simultaneously no ill effects...how beneficial (pun intended ;-) ) I cannot be certain. BTW, according to instructions when cycling you are to use X amount dosage on day 1, then X dosage for the next 7 days. As needed as well with WC ongoing.

Better late than never! Plus maybe some of this will help someone else in the future, or me when my senility kicks in and I google the issue and find my own thread (not the first time). Well I doubled up on the stability dosing as well as went ahead and got a bottle of tetra safe start as well. Doing a water change right now, and tested before. Chlorine 0, ammonia 0, nitrite might be present? But if it is its so low its barely registering or its all in my head, nitrates about 30-40.

 

[duanes]

To me, 10 days probably not enough time to build up a viable population of bacteria to handle anything other than a very tiny bioload.
30 to 60 days would be about what I would trust, leaning toward 60 to be most comfortable.

 

[skjl47]

Doing a water change right now, and tested before. Chlorine 0, ammonia 0, nitrite might be present? But if it is its so low its barely registering or its all in my head, nitrates about 30-40.

Hello; are you still putting old tank water into the fry tank?

 

[savannah_az]

Yes, tank is reading at 0 across the board and has been getting daily water changes so like I said its almost more of a way just to bring up temperature shock. I was thinking about the other things that are in the water however this is the tank that they are ultimately going into with he current tankmates. It's just a size issue right now. So realistically aren't I just acclimating them long term in a way?

 

[savannah_az]

To me, 10 days probably not enough time to build up a viable population of bacteria to handle anything other than a very tiny bioload.
30 to 60 days would be about what I would trust, leaning toward 60 to be most comfortable.

I know I wasn't thrilled with my situation, thats why Ive been doing 48 hour water changes with prime. However today it seems to have made leaps and bounds to where I need to be. No ammonia, no chlorine, Nitrites may be present, but if so they're barely reading. With nitrates at about mid 30's to 40. But im not changing my 48 hour time frame.

 

[skjl47]

still putting old tank water into the fry tank?

Yes,

nitrates about 30-40.

So realistically aren't I just acclimating them long term in a way?

Hello; There are other things in the old tank water in addition to the nitrates you are adding to the fry tank. It is reported that fish secrete/excrete hormones into the tank water. Reproduction, stress and likely others. There is also the potential issue of dissolved minerals that accumulate as water evaporates from the main tank. At any rate the extra nitrates would be sufficient reason, to me, to not use old tank water into a fry tank.

The purpose of a water change is to dilute the stuff that builds up in a tank that cannot be dealt with any other way. On top of that it seems, to me, that fry likely need more pristine water. Naming it acclimation just does not fit the purpose of a WC, to me. However we each get to run our tanks any way we wish. Good luck