Ethical Piranha posting - wheres the line?

[Otherone]

The Title page of this site -
"We are a unique community of Fish Keepers who seriously take our hobby to extremes and the NEXT level. The majority of our fish collections include RARE & EXOTIC Species of all sizes, BIG FISH with BIG APPETITES and BIG TANKS. It's not easy for most people or other "regular" fish keepers to understand why we maintain this type of collection and spare no expense on this fascinating hobby."

Funny how no one freaks when a Dorado eats an Ode or a Stingray kills Fang (the most popular Payara on this site) or A Mala wolf kills a Rainbow wolf and that list goes on and on. And NO ONE flames the crap outta these people for "questionable tankmates."

Feed your Piranha a good healthy live meal and bam! - it's a human rights violation. Happened to me once when I put down an arthritic green terror w/ Piranha - 40 pages of how I'm a horrible person, call the humane league, bam him, I'm gonna you run over with my car. My response was - "If I am a Monster then so be it, looks like I'm in the right place."

I guess my question is were does the line start and stop for ethical posting of Piranha keeping - Feeding your P's Cichlids on cam is a no no but Convict fry is okay? or large Goldfish is fine because....

I think keeping Piranha with other fish is "extreme" and pushing it to the "next level", accidents happen, and lets face it - watching the feeding frenzy of Piranha is very enjoyable. I would've loved watching a Rhom eat a 9" fish- guess I'm a horrible person too, a Monster Fish Keeper to be exact.

 

[BigShawn]

I myself have no problem with live feed or not (I don't feed live) the 9 in fish being ate by the large rhom is part of another story tho if your talking bout what I think you are, and (jmo) its really know else business what you do with your fish thats how I feel but when you post what you do for all to see then be prepaired to get good and bad comments

 

[BaileyIV]

im with you 100% i feed my 5 RBP ig rat once a week or so and i posted that on a thread and ppl are telling me its mean and the fish could get hurt and its not good for them and yes i joined "monsterfishkeepers" for the extremes and the NEXT level of keepers but to me feed your P pellets or Fish Fillets its that next level and i dont like with people bash cuz of whatever

 

[iloveyouDIE]

I can't speak for anyone else but I have my own views, as a piranha owner. I personally don't like piranhas being used as 'executioners' but I'll be honest when I say my own piranhas have been put into that position by my spouse. Only once! Our friend had a very old old and battered Oscar and he made the decision to put it in with our piranhas. Sort of like euthanizing it, fish style. I didn't have a say in it and it was over before I knew it. But fish eat fish! And I feed my piranhas small fish on occaision.. so really what is the difference?

Personally I don't agree with feeding them mice and rats. Mine don't even seem to like red meat very much, but it's a personal preference. Many people have gone back and forth on if it's 'natural' for them to eat red meat or if it's bad for them or the ethics. Even the girl at my LFS (who knows her fish info pretty well) argued FOR feeding them mice or rats, telling me that feeder mice and rats are no more ethically different than feeding them feeder fish.

I just think people can get a little crazy about imposing their views on others. Some people think of fish right on par with cats and dogs, others clearly DO NOT. People who are careless with their pets will be careless with ANY pet.. whether it's a fish or a cat. It's usually obvious who those people are. If someone wants to spend $20 on a fancy fish just to feed it to their piranhas... well it's their money to waste. I won't be calling any animal abuse places on them.

 

[BaileyIV]

i mean there has been a few times i was like wow i feel really bad for feeding them a rat cuz the 1st few time they would eat it fast so the rat died slow and i did feel really bad!!!!!! but on the 2/3rd time they eat a rat in about 15sec and its 100% gone. Also my LFS guy is for RED mean aswell

 

[jp80911]

what to feed your fish is totally a personal choice as long as what's being fed is healthy for the fish you keep, JMO.
I'm not oppose of feeding live as long as it's healthy for the fish you keep, heck, I enjoy watching my fish hunt but large size live prey (not crappy 20cents feeder go fish) is too expensive for my pocket so I stick with dead fish from grocery store for now.
as regards to feeding mic/rat, majority of piranha's diet consist of fish in the wild, and being opportunist feeders means they will eat any other meat if they had to and if given the chance. do they eat red meat in the wild? of course but it's only small percent of their diet and their digestive systems aren't designed to breakdown red meat as well as fish meat and red meat usually contains higher level of fat compare to fish meat. that's why should not be used as stable diet, it's not that good for your fish. can you use it as treat, of course. it's like eating junk food, it'll keep you alive and all but not really recommended if you want to be healthy.
the other thing is it usually gets messy so after the feeding the water parameters can be off with all the blood and fur. as long as you are aware of those it's the owner's choice to decide what to feed.
and I think what they mean by NEXT LEVEL doesn't mean the extreme food you feed to the fish, it's more of the fish you keep is the NEXT LEVEL compare to average fish keeper's neon tetra and swordtail that require more special care and home.

 

[ballinouttacntrol]

what to feed your fish is totally a personal choice as long as what's being fed is healthy for the fish you keep, JMO.
I'm not oppose of feeding live as long as it's healthy for the fish you keep, heck, I enjoy watching my fish hunt but large size live prey (not crappy 20cents feeder go fish) is too expensive for my pocket so I stick with dead fish from grocery store for now.
as regards to feeding mic/rat, majority of piranha's diet consist of fish in the wild, and being opportunist feeders means they will eat any other meat if they had to and if given the chance. do they eat red meat in the wild? of course but it's only small percent of their diet and their digestive systems aren't designed to breakdown red meat as well as fish meat and red meat usually contains higher level of fat compare to fish meat. that's why should not be used as stable diet, it's not that good for your fish. can you use it as treat, of course. it's like eating junk food, it'll keep you alive and all but not really recommended if you want to be healthy.
the other thing is it usually gets messy so after the feeding the water parameters can be off with all the blood and fur. as long as you are aware of those it's the owner's choice to decide what to feed.
and I think what they mean by NEXT LEVEL doesn't mean the extreme food you feed to the fish, it's more of the fish you keep is the NEXT LEVEL compare to average fish keeper's neon tetra and swordtail that require more special care and home.

Is that why i can't find the betta section?

lol, on a more serious note, how many of you thought 55 or 75 gallons was a monster fish tank until you started interacting with people on here?

 

[jp80911]

I never thought of 55g or 75g was a monster fish tank. to me there's never a fish tank that's big enough but I had to compromise to what I am able to afford and bring into my basement. I've been wanting room size tanks since I was like 15 but unfortunately I'm only able to have two 180 gallon tanks....what a shame

 

[Diogenes]

I think it's fairly simple. If you are feeding it live fish because you are deriving some sort of sadistic pleasure from the spectacle, then that is unethical.

If you feed your fish live food because you think your fish actually benefits from it in some way, then that can be ethical, as long as some common sense guidelines are followed. Make sure that whatever you are feeding it dies quickly, and as painlessly as possible, it's an appropriate size, et cetera. Try and give it a decent life for as long as you can. Unnecessary suffering is just unnecessary.

Generally everyone who feeds their fish live foods know which category their feeding falls into.

Also, when someone is trying to cohab a fish and it gets killed, that's more or less an experiment which is largely unnecessary simply because anyone can tell you that P's don't make good tankmates, but even if someone tries it and they sincerely are attempting to break new ground, then I would say that's an accident and thus ethical.

If 15 people on MFK tell you that your rhom shouldn't be kept with 4 other rhoms in a 125 and you do it anyway, then that's a conscious decision that you made, and thus probably unethical.

Generally, in moral philosophy, you are only responsible for those decisions that you make intentionally of your own free will, and not responsible for things that occur beyond your control. If you're honest with yourself, you know what your intentions were.

If you're on MFK, P-fury, or other associated sites, you really can't plead ignorance when stuff gets killed in your P tank. If you've ever read a page worth of posts, someone told you what the general consensus for ethical piranha keeping consists of.

The reason P keepers are so up-in-arms about unethical practices is because piranhas already have a terrible reputation, and these fish are abused more than probably any other fish besides the goldfish in home aquaria.

 

[jp80911]

Coop, well said.