Ethics in fishkeeping

[hulk181]

Every wonder why that is? The old saying that we dismiss as myth certainly has some truth to it...'fish only grow to the size of their tank'. Don't believe me? Peacock bass are a perfect example. Look at the sizes of the bass being kept by 99% of the people on this forum in 200-400g tanks. They're runts compared to what you see in the wild. "But that's in the wild, not in captivity". Bullcrap. Look at the size of the bass in JohnPTC's 10,000g tank. They're freaking monsters. Fish DO grow to the size of their environment.

You don't see aros reach 4ft in captivity because we can't/don't give them the environment to reach their full potential. A 240g is hardly adequate.

But that's my point. No one except guys like johnptc should keep aros or peacock bass then by that rationale because a 300g is even too small for them. There is always going to be bigger pbass or aros somewhere in a bigger tank but that doesn't mean that specific fish is going to live longer than one in a 300g.

 

[professor_rob]

Interesting topic. I tend not to judge people too much as I can't really do anything about it and people don't listen to criticism on the web, especially when they will be receiving kudos for the fish at the same time.

I personally try not to overstock my tanks and I don't think an under stocked tank is boring or not as exciting. If it is a bare tank then yeah it could be boring, but I try to at least have a decent looking scape in the tank and I enjoy watching the fish have lots of room to swim in all directions, plus they enjoy a scaped tank.

Also with the whole mansion comparison, fish don't leave their 'mansion' to go to work, shopping etc so doesn't really compare as most people don't stay in their mansion 24/7 by choice or force.

I am not going to judge or bash people (or say too much) as people have different opinions on what is big enough or too small for a species and everyone's situation is different (space, living arrangements, financial, 'controlling' partner, enthusiasm, or even just common sense and many more)
I am lucky I had the opportunity (money and space) to build a decent sized tank (my dream tank), I would of loved to go back and make it bigger now but can't justify doing that now (partner is not that understanding...)
There are many species I would like to keep but am very hesitant to chuck them in my 650g tank suck as cichla. I would never look down at people who do have them in smaller tanks as I have seen pics of amazing looking cichla in smaller tanks, but common sense is usually present as they were very passionate keepers.

(Also I am not hesitant with cichla based solely on the tank volume, my tank has an unusual floor plan where it is only 70cm on one side with a weir and 3D BG there, other end is 4ft. So I am definitely not saying anything smaller then 650g is too small for a cichla, plus I am not very well versed with them.)

I think I said enough...


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[jcardona1]

But that's my point. No one except guys like johnptc should keep aros or peacock bass then by that rationale because a 300g is even too small for them. There is always going to be bigger pbass or aros somewhere in a bigger tank but that doesn't mean that specific fish is going to live longer than one in a 300g.

So then it's like Aldiaz33 said, it comes with a degree of selfishness. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's for each individual up to decide, and the whole reason for this discussion about "ethics". Is it right to stuff a big fish in a small tank just because you can? And because you want to?

With that logic I should be able to setup an above ground inflatable pool in my garage and keep a few dolphins. I mean, they fit and can swim around right?

 

[ecoli73]

Tank width depends highly on the fish. A 4 foot silver aro needs much less width than say a 4 foot Gar.

Average silver aro keepers should aim for a 240, 300 wide would be better. Jardini keepers should be fine with a 180...but it will be the only fish in the tank.

 

[ecoli73]

So then it's like Aldiaz33 said, it comes with a degree of selfishness. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's for each individual up to decide, and the whole reason for this discussion about "ethics". Is it right to stuff a big fish in a small tank just because you can? And because you want to?

With that logic I should be able to setup an above ground inflatable pool in my garage and keep a few dolphins. I mean, they fit and can swim around right?

There is a degree of reasonableness in arguments. A silver properly maintained in a 240 will live to very old age. Doubtful your pod of dolphins will in your inflatable pool.

 

[jcardona1]

There is a degree of reasonableness in arguments. A silver properly maintained in a 240 will live to very old age. Doubtful your pod of dolphins will in your inflatable pool.

Playing devil's avocado here, but why not? If they're given good clean water and the right food, why wouldn't it work? And yes, I realize the differences in mental capacities between an arowana and a dolphin.

 

[ecoli73]

For one thing your dolphin will break your inflatable pool

 

[hulk181]

So then it's like Aldiaz33 said, it comes with a degree of selfishness. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's for each individual up to decide, and the whole reason for this discussion about "ethics". Is it right to stuff a big fish in a small tank just because you can? And because you want to?

With that logic I should be able to setup an above ground inflatable pool in my garage and keep a few dolphins. I mean, they fit and can swim around right?

You're comparing a silver aro to a dolphin. Why not make it a whale shark then to make it even more interesting?

As for the selfishness argument, any time a fishkeeper takes a fish out of the wild and puts it in a tank, that's being selfish to a lot of people. Any fish would prefer to live in the wild than in our tanks. But by buying fish and raising them, we support a few different local economies and enjoy a nice hobby too. Plus, an experienced fishkeeper can give a fish a long and healthy life. So is that selfish? If it is, then I'm a greedy selfish mofo. We shouldn't even have a fishkeeping hobby then if we're going to be that sensitive about things.

 

[jcardona1]

You're comparing a silver aro to a dolphin. Why not make it a whale shark then to make it even more interesting?

As for the selfishness argument, any time a fishkeeper takes a fish out of the wild and puts it in a tank, that's being selfish to a lot of people. Any fish would prefer to live in the wild than in our tanks. But by buying fish and raising them, we support a few different local economies and enjoy a nice hobby too. Plus, an experienced fishkeeper can give a fish a long and healthy life. So is that selfish? If it is, then I'm a greedy selfish mofo. We shouldn't even have a fishkeeping hobby then if we're going to be that sensitive about things.

My response to your comment is in post #30. Echoes my sentiments exactly

 

[aldiaz33]

There is never an exact dimension you need to keep a fish thriving.

Really? Try keeping an Arapaima in a 55G for life and let me know how that works out for it?

Tank width depends highly on the fish. A 4 foot silver aro needs much less width than say a 4 foot Gar.

Average silver aro keepers should aim for a 240, 300 wide would be better. Jardini keepers should be fine with a 180...but it will be the only fish in the tank.

The standard versions of a 180, 240 and 300 all have 2' width. Not much difference in regards to the foorprint of the tanks you mentioned.

You are used to seeing stunted Silvers if you think an adult Silver Aro can live for an extended period of time in a 2' wide tank.

For one thing your dolphin will break your inflatable pool

Is it anymore ethical if you change it from an inflatable pool to an inground pool?