Ethics in fishkeeping

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jcardona1 said:
It's not really a matter of animal 'rights'. It's about doing what you think is right and not doing what you think is wrong. Somebody said it earlier; there's two kinds of fish keepers. The two will never agree and we can argue this till the end of time. There are those who view their fish as pets, members of the family and like to treat them as you would a dog or a cat or a bird. Then there are those who view them as material possessions; just another flashy item in their collection of "things" and feel that as long as the minimum basic requirements to sustain life are met, they are doing no wrong.

That's all there is to it. And all there will ever be. One side will never convince the other. We just come on here, talk crap about each other for a bit then go back to our normal lives. It's the way of the internet forum :)
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So true, I have avoided this thread like the plague because of this.
 
jcardona1 said:
It's not really a matter of animal 'rights'. It's about doing what you think is right and not doing what you think is wrong. Somebody said it earlier; there's two kinds of fish keepers. The two will never agree and we can argue this till the end of time. There are those who view their fish as pets, members of the family and like to treat them as you would a dog or a cat or a bird. Then there are those who view them as material possessions; just another flashy item in their collection of "things" and feel that as long as the minimum basic requirements to sustain life are met, they are doing no wrong.

That's all there is to it. And all there will ever be. One side will never convince the other. We just come on here, talk crap about each other for a bit then go back to our normal lives. It's the way of the internet forum :)
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People who keep fish differently than you do not necessarily view them as just material possession. Just like people who chose not to spend tens of thousands of dollars to keep a cat alive not necessarily bad pet owners. Your post above is just dripping with condescending attitude that is what make you disagreeable. I too can play this game. Your discus tank is beautiful but who is to say a pack of wild discus is satisfied with 190 gallons? Why not keep the 405g and put them in there? Are you not doing your utmost for members of your own family?
 
Ive only heard two real arguements before:fish are pets or things. If they are pets you should treat them as so and do what you think is right. Most people viewing them as pets and not just as things will try to give them more than the bare minimum and I dont see how that is so condescending. Once again, we should be able to have this civil debate without pointing fingers at how each other does things. Just because something comes from the wild does not mean you are being a bad keeper for not giving it a full pond or ocean. 190 is more than the accepted size based on experienced responsible discus keepers
 
ecoli73 said:
Your post above is just dripping with condescending attitude that is what make you disagreeable.
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The problem is you think I'm trying to get you to agree with me. I'm not. You can pick apart my setups all you like, I won't get offended like others here. I'm just sharing my views. And it's already clear that we don't agree with each other's points of view.
 
-> Once again, we should be able to have this civil debate without pointing fingers at how each other does things.

LOL, I also think 190 gallon is good enough for discus. Just given jcardona1 a dose of his own medicine.
 
jcardona1 said:
The problem is you think I'm trying to get you to agree with me. I'm not. You can pick apart my setups all you like, I won't get offended like others here. I'm just sharing my views. And it's already clear that we don't agree with each other's points of view.
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No I do not think that at all. I think you are trying to disprove my position by stating some flawed theory of all aros given a chance will grow to 4 ft and smaller species of peacocks will all grow large given "enough" space. Again sir, can you explain your 30 inch peacock bass story? Does smaller growing peacocks actually grow large in John's setup?
 
Personally I tank a dump in my tank once every 6 months to simulate natural habitat. I wouldnt want to take their natural habitat from them.
 
ecoli73 said:
No I do not think that at all. I think you are trying to disprove my position by stating some flawed theory of all aros given a chance will grow to 4 ft and smaller species of peacocks will all grow large given "enough" space. Again sir, can you explain your 30 inch peacock bass story? Does smaller growing peacocks actually grow large in John's setup?
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You're still clinging on to that? Come on man. ONE dead fish against a ruler proves and invalidates everything? I've been ignoring you on that because it's a silly counterpoint. Have you seen this tank in person?

Ok, let's try another example. Koi. You're in Sunnyvale. Have you ever been to Tse Koi in San Jose? They have several 36" koi that are absolute monsters. Imported from Japan grown in massive mud ponds. Koi can reach monstrous sizes in a matter of years when given the proper space. You can also see more giant koi in the Japanese Friendship Gardens in San Jose. I have koi that are going on 8-9yrs old and they aren't even close to that size and they're basically full grown. Why? I think pond size has something to do with it. The pond we keep them in is large, but it's no lake or massive pond by any stretch. Over the years I've seen lots of koi kept in smaller garden ponds and they never reach these massive sizes even though they are old adult fish. But in these big public ponds the fish are massive. The size of the environment HAS to be a contributing factor. We can't keep ignoring this and dismiss it as myth. Of course I don't have any scientific proof if that's what you're looking for. Just a semi-educated guess/observation.
 
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