Experiment w Almond Leaves

[LBDave]

What I'm trying to do is get an idea of how many almond leaves it might take before any change in color or in pH is noticed at all.
I realize, that if I put a bushel or two of leaves in the tank, it would probably happen like that.
There seems to be a lot of anecdotal ideas floating around about how "almond leaves" are the black water panacea, that they will alter pH, and people may be buying them, thinking this or that will absolutely happen.
By my doing it gradually, we my find out ( maybe not) if, or how much it will take in my average size 100-200 gal tank, with pH 8 water to do the job.
This may give an idea if its worth the trouble for someone who is mildly interested.
Since nothing has happened as of yet though, I may double up on on adding more, so as not to become boring.
It may be, to get a decent black water tint, I may need a bushel, or constant 3" layer of leaves covering the entire substrate.
This may or may not be what many aquarists think of, as an aesthetically type decor, and want to do to their tank.

There is some new research showing tannins are a normal and important part of most tropical species health.
For black water species this seems obvious, but the advantage for non-black water species may also be important.

I like your informal experiment. I actually started trying them after you mentioned them (I use Indian Almond leaves) in a post regarding a diseased anglefish I believe. I notice noticeable water yellowing in about 3-4 days. I put two leaves in a 110 gal tank and two in a 230 gallon tank. I found that the leaves erode significantly within about 2 weeks.
I put the leaves in a sump as I don't need any more detritus in either tank. I am now replacing the leaves every 2 or 3 weeks and I now put them in a mesh bag. Do they help the fish? Not sure. Both tanks exhibit plenty of breeding behavior with oscars and pbass. Before and after using the leaves. I also wanted to test ph (informally with a ph probe tester I have). I will give it a try. I also have a kh test kit I will break out.
I do about 70-80% weekly changes. I do know that a day or two after a change the ph decreases a bit.
This was prior testing I did way before this leaf thing came up.

So yes your experiment is interesting to me.

 

[duanes]

The leaves added the other day (over a dozen) are actually still there laying around the substrate 5 days later.

Although now, almost a month since beginning this test, pH has not changed (checked today, still at 8), and water clarity has not changed.
Our islands water plant has been O.O.S at least a week. so I've been using rain water for water changes, which in theory, should also contribute to droppong pH a little, bur it has not.
I pump rain water across the yard to the tanks as soon as the rain barrel fills.

 

[FINWIN]

It would be interesting to have a controlled test with say different leaves in gallon jars (oak, almond, etc) with testing done to see which leaves were most effective tinting or altering ph. Same amount of leaves per jar by weight...then you could extrapolate percentage by the gallon.

 

[duanes]

During the past week, after a rain event helped drop couple dozen leaves for me to pick up, I've added them all, enough so to cover almost the entire bottom of the tank. Still the pH remains at 8.

So over the last 5 weeks I've added at least 50 leaves without any noticeable change in color, or pH, and even slacked off on water changes a bit to see if that would make a dent, lessening the change to only 20% (using mostly rain water)every other day.
I don't doubt that tannins are being infused into the water, just not enough to alter color or significantly drop pH even a 10th on the pH scale, in the 300 gallons of tank and sump.
I will continue to add leaves, as they fall.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

If the goal is to stain the water and to get the beneficial properties but not to changes the pH, then Rooibos tea is the way to go. It is easy to use. You can either put it in a bag in a filter or brew it and pour the liquid into the tank (this is how I do it). When I was selling stuff at fish events this is the handout I offered on Rooibos (Pictures not included.)

Rooibos Tea​

• Is beneficial for fish, 100% caffeine and tannin free and you can drink it too.
• Will stain water like peat, almond leaves or alder cones and can be used with them.
• Will not soften water or lower pH. It is more likely to bump pH up by 0.1.
• Can be brewed like tea and poured into the water or can be put into a bag in one’s filter. Once brewed it can be stored refrigerated for about a week.
• When brewing, allow it to boil for a bit after the tea is added to the hot water.
• It is hard to overdose. Start with about 1 rounded teaspoon per 10 gal. (38 L) of water and adjust from there to find the color you like.
• Buying Rooibos helps to support the local farmers in South Africa.

Rooibos tea (meaning red bush in Afrikaans and pronounced roy + boss) has nothing to do with traditional tea, which comes from the Chinese plant Camellia sinensis in the family Rosaceae. Rooibos comes from the plant, Aspalathus linearis, a legume in the family Fabaceae- it is related to peas and beans. The bush is more like a broom than a bush. The top of the bush is cut off, dried and oxidized before packing in tea bags or sold as loose tea.

Wikipedia (at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooibos) states:

Rooibos is becoming more popular in Western countries, particularly among health-conscious consumers, due to its high level of antioxidants such as aspalathin and nothofagin, its lack of caffeine, and its low tannin levels compared to fully oxidized black tea or unoxidized green tea leaves. Rooibos also contains a number of phenolic compounds, including flavanols, flavones, flavanones, and dihydrochalcones.

For fish keeping we are interested in the plant phenolic compounds that act as antioxidants and also as antibacterials (it won’t harm filters). This is similar to the humic acids found in natural “tea” stained water. Oak leaves contain a lot of the plant phenolic quercetin (from the Latin name for the oak tree, Quercus robur) and rooibos also contains some quercetin plus the compound aspalathin, which is closely related to quercetin.

Research at the University of Stellenbosch shows that rooibos also has natural stress relieving properties. It is entirely safe to use and is beneficial for keepers and fish alike. The "organic" label is unnecessary for rooibos as it is grown naturally without using insecticides and herbicides, they are just simply not needed and can actually harm the plant.

 

[LBDave]

I like your informal experiment. I actually started trying them after you mentioned them (I use Indian Almond leaves) in a post regarding a diseased anglefish I believe. I notice noticeable water yellowing in about 3-4 days. I put two leaves in a 110 gal tank and two in a 230 gallon tank. I found that the leaves erode significantly within about 2 weeks.
I put the leaves in a sump as I don't need any more detritus in either tank. I am now replacing the leaves every 2 or 3 weeks and I now put them in a mesh bag. Do they help the fish? Not sure. Both tanks exhibit plenty of breeding behavior with oscars and pbass. Before and after using the leaves. I also wanted to test ph (informally with a ph probe tester I have). I will give it a try. I also have a kh test kit I will break out.
I do about 70-80% weekly changes. I do know that a day or two after a change the ph decreases a bit.
This was prior testing I did way before this leaf thing came up.

So yes your experiment is interesting to me.

Although I don't add nearly as many leaves as Duanes I do see a slight yellow tint in both my tanks after 4 days. I have tested my tap water and both tanks for Ph 6 days after their last water change and they are essentially equivalent. High 7's to 8.0.

 

[tlindsey]

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/oak-leaves.725585/post-8186733

 

[fishdance]

Keep an eye on the fish tank inhabitants. I suspect you will see benefits even if pH or water colour doesn't change. So fish behaviour should also be part of the trial.

Especially since that's why we keep tanks.

 

[Midwater]