Exportation of Sub-Adult Black Rays

[alanm]

The price on any ray be it black or not depends on the exporter selling it,you may be able to get a good deal if u shop around

also long term dealing with trusted importers always helps

as for wild rays and size i respect your thoughts ,,but wild are wild whatever the size

to me its not the size its the quality thats more important ,,the better the stock the better the breeding

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

if all the black rays coming out are sub adults do you think the prices will drop NO

more shipping costs

and do you really think any of these rays will be for the general public at prices they can afford NO

just greedy exporters/importers

Greedy is a subjective term thou. People want what they want and can spend their money by their choosing. Im not saying that it makes it right or not but perhaps its a reflection of their character or lack of care/knowledge regarding buying such a ray...

The price on any ray be it black or not depends on the exporter selling it,you may be able to get a good deal if u shop around

also long term dealing with trusted importers always helps

as for wild rays and size i respect your thoughts ,,but wild are wild whatever the size

to me its not the size its the quality thats more important ,,the better the stock the better the breeding

Size is important thou, taking out an adult litter producing ray in the wild versus a pre-sexual ray or pup does make a difference IF you are concerned about the conservation of these rays in the wild.

Thou on another note, I have heard that hundreds of these rays do get killed/eaten by the local populations.

Just some things to consider, to be honest I have yet to form a solid opinion in this...

 

[alanm]

so are you saying if you purchase a larger wild ray you have less knowledge than if you buy a smaller

perhaps the larger wild ray is sterile and the smaller you left is fertile who knows

i do worry about conservation but if i worried that much i would leave the hobbie and all rays in the wild

its choice

 

[alanm]

the slaughter of these animals is true the local fishermen see these as pests

i have very good friends who have visited these waters and posted their thoughts on the above subject before

 

[T1KARMANN]

if the larger ray you are exporting is sterile then whats the point in exporting it in the 1st place

we have no idea which rays are sterile and which are not

what i do know is every adult female that is exported thats 20 passable pups per year that could be in the wild

if the quoter was 6000 most people want more females so 4000 of that quota would be female thats 80k less pups per year

in the past it has been mainly pups exported smaller than 8inch

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

so are you saying if you purchase a larger wild ray you have less knowledge than if you buy a smaller

its choice

Not saying that at all. My point is that people have their own personal reasons as to why they buy what they buy...

Whether it be for show, conservation, rarity, the latest fad, love of the hobby, or whatever...

 

[ShadowStryder]

if the larger ray you are exporting is sterile then whats the point in exporting it in the 1st place

we have no idea which rays are sterile and which are not

what i do know is every adult female that is exported thats 20 passable pups per year that could be in the wild

if the quoter was 6000 most people want more females so 4000 of that quota would be female thats 80k less pups per year

in the past it has been mainly pups exported smaller than 8inch

This is the point I tried to make in my previous post, though not as
articulated.
Just like the peeps I know that hand fish female catfish of their eggs or
fry beds. They lay thousands of eggs you pull that female out while carrying
or after laying the eggs those thousands will never have a chance to mature
to breeding. The chances are only less than 1% that one will
live to reproduce anways with out interference from outside sources.

It is the same theory, Every mature female that you pull out produces more
pups per year than any of the young or subadult rays will produce
in 5 years.
They need to install a size restriction just like bass or trout in the US.
They way mature breeders will be left to produce and keep the population
strong.

 

[DB junkie]

if all the black rays coming out are sub adults do you think the prices will drop NO

more shipping costs

and do you really think any of these rays will be for the general public at prices they can afford NO

just greedy exporters/importers

Even the greedy exporters/importers aren't going to just KEEP all these rays when they start reproducing. If the rate of birth exceeds the rate of sale something will have to give. Bottleneck theory...... The dam (importer/exporter's ponds/holding tanks) can only hold so much water (pups) before it becomes so full it begins to overflow (profit out of pockets) So you either make room to hold even more or start selling them cheaper. With the possibility that the value of the rays will sink like our stockmarket I would think you would want them out of the facility as soon as possible before price drops another cent.

 

[T1KARMANN]

Even the greedy exporters/importers aren't going to just KEEP all these rays when they start reproducing. If the rate of birth exceeds the rate of sale something will have to give. Bottleneck theory...... The dam (importer/exporter's ponds/holding tanks) can only hold so much water (pups) before it becomes so full it begins to overflow (profit out of pockets) So you either make room to hold even more or start selling them cheaper. With the possibility that the value of the rays will sink like our stockmarket I would think you would want them out of the facility as soon as possible before price drops another cent.

just because a adult female can produce that many pups in the wild doesnt mean it can produce that many in captivaty

you have a very good chance that a mature imported wont even feed properly let alone breed makeing some think they are sterile

 

[Nic]

this is gonna get really interesting..... as far as p14s go they are not supposed to be exported so they are smuggled.. me personally i would prefer a ray around 8" (20cm?) 30 cm is fine but i prefer to deal with smaller rays and grow them out.. Ibama is really cracking down on this...lets see if all the greedy people who smuggle out illegal rays and plecos screw us on this ban being lifted...