F3 P14

[DavidW]

I would prefer to define it like David does!

This is not something that I have invented, or 'my' definition , it is the correct use of the term as defined by universal consensus of biologists in all fields.

When you think about it, every ray ever born , wild or captive bred, to any unrelated parents ( F0) , is by definition F1, so according to logic of any other than the accepted definition, if any 2 F1 rays breed together , even if unrelated, you now get F2 by the other definition, same for any 2 unrelated F2 rays would by that definition produce F3, and that just doesn't make any sense and so that definition fails.

 

[rayman]

So far I found three different way how the term F0, F1, F2, ... is used:

1. Like David always says if you have a inbreed line, the paternal generation (F0) are two unrelated animals and their pups are the F1. Inbreeding these pups will give you the F2, inbreeding the pups of the F2 give you the F3 and so on.

2. Like I posted before, in management of captive populations F0 are all wildcaught specimen. F1 are all pups resulting from matings between two F0 animals. F2 are the pups from F1xF1 or F0xF1 if they are related or not. F3 are pups from F2xF2 or F1xF2 or F0xF2.
In this way the term is used for arowanas and other protected species:

[FONT=.VnTime]16. F0, F1, F2 generations:[/FONT]
[FONT=.VnTime]a) F0 are live animals, eggs or gametes taken from the nature or young animals born in the controlled environment but as the outcomes of natural mating;[/FONT]
[FONT=.VnTime]b) F1 are offspring of copulation of individual animals captured from nature (F0) and raised in the controlled environment. The offspring of copulation between any individual animal (F) and a F0 in the controlled environment is considered F1;[/FONT]
[FONT=.VnTime]c) F2 are the offspring of copulation of a parental couple (F1) raised and mating in the controlled environment.[/FONT]
http://www.asianlii.org/vn/legis/laws/omoteiatowaapovs849/

3. In breeding hybrids F0 are two different species or inbreed lines. Mostly there is only the F1 the goal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_hybrid

In breeding cats like the bengal or savannah the F1 males are infertile, so you can not mate F1xF1 to get a F2. There must be an outcross male. But the term F2, F3 and so on is still used for the next generations.

 

[StefanW]

This is not something that I have invented, or 'my' definition

I never stated that this would be "your" definition and I of course never thought, that using the term this way would be your invention

The only thing I wanted to tell is, that we are almost of the same opinion, concerning the the biologically correct use of the terms, nothing else. But as I meanwhile think, it's maybe still only the correctes, but depending on the point of view, not the only possible correct use of the terms F0, F1, F2 and F3, !

 

[Bogwoodbruce]

sorry that you lost the last pup

 

[StefanW]

Of course also sorry for your last pup, although if it was no big surprise that it did not make it.
Reduce stress for the pregnant females and it's much more likely, that everything is working well in future!

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

Out of popcorn + name calling = DONE

What could have been a more interesting informative discussion is now turning into babysitting with people who cant discuss in a mature fashion.