Festae- Quality VS Trash!!

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Live animal EXPORTATION is banned. Collecting is not an option.

Not that I buy into the notion that anyone is actually importing 1" F0 fry, I would imagine that locals could get away with collecting pretty much anything that they wanted. Also, what's to stop a commercial fish farmer in Ecuador from getting some of his festae across a border where they can be shipped out? I'm guessing those festae would all become F0 by the time they landed on NA soil as well.

As far as the live fish ban in Ecuador, does anyone have a link that provides the information regarding this ban?
 
Not that I buy into the notion that anyone is actually importing 1" F0 fry, I would imagine that locals could get away with collecting pretty much anything that they wanted. Also, what's to stop a commercial fish farmer in Ecuador from getting some of his festae across a border where they can be shipped out? I'm guessing those festae would all become F0 by the time they landed on NA soil as well.

As far as the live fish ban in Ecuador, does anyone have a link that provides the information regarding this ban?

I believe it is possible for locals and commercial fish farmers to get fish across the border. as far as i know from what ive read, it is illegal to transport live fish/animals out of Ecuador. This is Ecuador im talking about, not peru or colombia. I havent looked into any of the regulations regarding those countries. here is one link relating to wildlife being exported from Ecuador.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...AQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNH1plSkP-HDc4lNkIuFrq8-PGqKpQ

So if Farmers collected wild species and raised them in their ponds and were to ship out of their country, then technically yes, everything in the pond would have to be considered wild as nobody could prove otherwise. I would prefer not to resort to having to buy festae from farmers, but instead from someone who collects or breeds festae and keeps pairs seperated. Im not interested in hypothetical genes. I like to know to the best i can of what i am getting:)

There are other sites as well for referencing importation/eportation of wild animals in Ecuador. Just google them:)
 
And in regards to the 1" F0 fry, I didnt say it wasnt possible to collect fry because it is infact very possible. What i referred to originally was that i have a hard time believing that 1" wild festae can be collected so regularily on a consistent basis. And a few people believe that i was accusing a specific vendor of mis-labling his festae or insinuating that he collected them. Well my friends, none of that was directly aimed at him for any reason. what i am reffering to are the "commercial Farmers" who do collect and throw them in their ponds. and then sell fry from the original collectees as wild caught. which nobody can prove that the parents were or were not related to begin with. But over time a single pond left alone with x number of festae to inhabit and reproduce over time, may very well contribute to a higher ratio of deformities. This also doesnt mean that the farmers arent selling actual wild specimans because im sure they are. So back to what i was saying, is even if these Farmers are doing this, it doesnt make it any vendors fault to label these fish as they were originally labeled during their purchase. I guess its the nature of the beast!!
 
Why import ONLY "F0" .75" fry if you're importing wild caught festae? When I worked wholesale and we imported from Columbia and Signapore (a new order alternating every other week!) we would get over a dozen full double boxes each order because the difference in shipping was negligible after a certain point. How much you think larger festae costs at that level? Around $20 if that?
And almost NO ONE wants tiny festae! Look how much large wild caught pairs go for, or even 4" fish! You think you'd see at least a few bigger ones come in on every order--and other cichlids from Peru like ornatum! Isn't this the same vendor that just brought in dozens of BIG wild caught umbee? But when it comes to festae you only being in .75" fry and consistently every few months? Ok...


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You also have to realize this vendor doesn't list everything he has for sale. I was looking into getting a female trimac from him as he had several sizes listed but when I contacted him he said that he was out of his but did have a 5.5 inch female f0 from rio naranja and several males. I have seen his trimacs and this one looked very different than they do. Now did it have papers proving it was a wild caught fish, no. Do I trust him and his word, you bet your a@$ I do! But in the end all you have to go on is your gut and everyone is entitled to their own feelings and it is not worth getting heated over.


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Yeah I'm sure they have tons of large wild caught festae for sale not listed. Being able to get a fish you specifically want from another farmer or selling an extra fish from your breeding projects here or there has nothing to do with this conversation.


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You also have to realize this vendor doesn't list everything he has for sale. I was looking into getting a female trimac from him as he had several sizes listed but when I contacted him he said that he was out of his but did have a 5.5 inch female f0 from rio naranja and several males. I have seen his trimacs and this one looked very different than they do. Now did it have papers proving it was a wild caught fish, no. Do I trust him and his word, you bet your a@$ I do! But in the end all you have to go on is your gut and everyone is entitled to their own feelings and it is not worth getting heated over.


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Yes youre right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to use their best judgement when buying anything from anyone. I dont ask for any papers to prove anything. I like to build personal relationships with people that i buy from so i can judge myself as whether i can trust their word or not. Lets not single out one vendor here!! These questions can be asked of all vendors or wholesalers. Nobody is perfect but sometimes business is business and i have seen some cutthroating over the years from business men.

From my business expiriences with Dan were positive. Ive talked with Gage and Ira as well and my expiriences were the same. Ive never talked to Rapps before, only exchange emails. As for the rest of the vendors i havent had the pleasure. Im not interested in trying to dispute their credibility, especially without proof!! I give everyone the benifit of a doubt untill they prove otherwise. It would be a very sad day if someone was able to prove that any of these vendors are lying about their stock just to make money!! It would be nice to know if certain fish were farmed from wild stock or recently collected. This way if i was buying a known farmed fish, i would be able to consider the possiblity of all the outcomes.
 
Jason
Thank you for the clarification.

Aclockworkorange,
As an FYI, I offered 7-10 inch festae several times a year as information. You would notice that if you didn't have over 7,700 posts on mfk in over 2 years. Several members purchased these larger fish from me. If you have questions regarding my sources, which I attempted to answer in another thread, please contact me at your convenience. I have been nothing but respectful towards your opinions as you are certainly entitled to them. I would ask the same in return.
 
Yes youre right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to use their best judgement when buying anything from anyone. I dont ask for any papers to prove anything. I like to build personal relationships with people that i buy from so i can judge myself as whether i can trust their word or not. Lets not single out one vendor here!! These questions can be asked of all vendors or wholesalers. Nobody is perfect but sometimes business is business and i have seen some cutthroating over the years from business men.

From my business expiriences with Dan were positive. Ive talked with Gage and Ira as well and my expiriences were the same. Ive never talked to Rapps before, only exchange emails. As for the rest of the vendors i havent had the pleasure. Im not interested in trying to dispute their credibility, especially without proof!! I give everyone the benifit of a doubt untill they prove otherwise. It would be a very sad day if someone was able to prove that any of these vendors are lying about their stock just to make money!! It would be nice to know if certain fish were farmed from wild stock or recently collected. This way if i was buying a known farmed fish, i would be able to consider the possiblity of all the outcomes.

Very well put now as we were let's not let this thread go awry again!


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Lots of things in this world are illegal, that doesn't mean that they don't take place on a regular basis. Show me a large enough profit, and I'll show you a thriving business. :)

Jason ........I found that link, it doesn't break things down at all. I'm looking for a direct reference to the ban of exporting "live fish" from Ecuador. I'm not doubting that there is one in place, but I would prefer to read the actual regulations with regards to live fish. Until then, I can only assume that no such ban exists, at least one that includes ALL fish under ALL situations.

If there is a ban in place, then perhaps Dan can explain how it is that he has a constant source of 1 inch "wild caught" fry available?

what i am reffering to are the "commercial Farmers" who do collect and throw them in their ponds. and then sell fry from the original collectees as wild caught. which nobody can prove that the parents were or were not related to begin with. But over time a single pond left alone with x number of festae to inhabit and reproduce over time, may very well contribute to a higher ratio of deformities. This also doesnt mean that the farmers arent selling actual wild specimans because im sure they are. So back to what i was saying, is even if these Farmers are doing this, it doesnt make it any vendors fault to label these fish as they were originally labeled during their purchase. I guess its the nature of the beast!! .

Sorry, but you have completely lost me. What commercial farmers do you speak of? Who exactly is raising festae in "ponds", other than possibly those who export fish from Ecuador, in which case you will never know whether your fish are F0, or F?, unless you travel to Ecuador & collect them yourself.
 
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