Festae- Quality VS Trash!!

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I'm afraid that I don't share your sentiments. Certainly there are fish born both in the wild, and in our tanks, that can surface from time to time with some form or another of a deformity. Curved spines, crooked mouths, etc-etc, but not anything like what I have been seeing over the past few yrs with festae.

Also, in the wild a deformity in a fish can be the result of numerous factors outside of genetics, such as water pollution, injury, disease, parasites, etc. But again, not a common every day occurrence in wild cichlids, at least not from what I have seen from the hundreds of different species and tens of thousands of cichlids being collected & imported from CA, SA, or Africa. Anyone that has spent any amount of time kicking around an importers facility can vouch for that. Ditto to the offspring of most F0 cichlids. Deformed F0 fish are an anomaly, not a regular occurrence, even those cichlids collected from some VERY polluted bodies of water. (such as some of the crater lakes in CA)

A festea with a slope face may be undesireable by aquarium standards but may be a natural adaptation that may be allowing them to succeed in the wild.
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And we are now also to believe that an open water opportunistic predator, is within a single generation somehow randomly adapting in our tanks to becoming bottom feeders with a mouth like a sucker? lol There is nothing natural about a festae with a face that looks like it was smashed in with a hammer, and it is in no way an adaptation to any type of captive feeding strategy.

And as bomilly previously stated;
Furthermore just because a Festae came from Ecuador or Peru doesn't make it wild caught. There area couple of farms over there too.
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Agreed. I believe that I posted a link to just such a farm, with tanks full of festae, earlier on in this discussion. Those 1" fry being sold as WC, could be F3's for all anyone here knows, including the vendor selling them. Unless of course he has photos from his collecting trip in Peru.
 
jweav said:
Any fish whether wild caught or many generation removed from the wild is going to produce a certain percentage in each spawn of fry that have deformities in one form or another. I have been fishing all my life and over the years have caught a large number of fish that by aquarium standards has undesired deformities yet still seam to be healthy fish that are making a living for themselves in the wild. Lets say a species of fish in the wild has an average spawn of say a 1000 fry probably less than 1% of those fry reach adulthood in the best of conditions. And sure fish that have deformities are even less likely to be in that lucky 1% because of natural selection yet many do make it. I do not think any one can discount a reputable vendor that may have gotten 100 1" fry that indeed did come from the wild just because some of those fish have deformities because probably none of those fish with deformities would of made it if they were left in the wild. I do think the vendor or any one who is spawning fish has the responsebility to cull any fry that they know have deformities. A festea with a slope face may be undesireable by aquarium standards but may be a natural adaptation that may be allowing them to succeed in the wild.
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Well put RD. The diet and habitat of Festae in Ecuador all but assures that they are not predisposed to look like Geophagus. Yet this what we are seeing too frequently in some of today's specimens. The landscape has not changed nor has the diet of those inhabiting the Rio Esmereldas and and Guyacil. The marketplaces are the best place to observe if there are any issues out in the waterways. The ones which are being caught for food by locals do not look like the mutants being sold in America. Truly there are abnormalities within every species, but not at the large percentages we are currently seeing in the hobby. I will again attempt to attach photos of some F0 juvies. Hopefully it works this time.
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bomillyiam said:
Well put RD. The diet and habitat of Festae in Ecuador all but assures that they are not predisposed to look like Geophagus. Yet this what we are seeing too frequently in some of today's specimens. The landscape has not changed nor has the diet of those inhabiting the Rio Esmereldas and and Guyacil. The marketplaces are the best place to observe if there are any issues out in the waterways. The ones which are being caught for food by locals do not look like the mutants being sold in America. Truly there are abnormalities within every species, but not at the large percentages we are currently seeing in the hobby. I will again attempt to attach photos of some F0 juvies. Hopefully it works this time.
View attachment 804876View attachment 804877View attachment 804878View attachment 804879
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So are these real f-0 equador ? Are they good quality? sorry to ask but i may have misunderstood if these were good quality or not so good ? Thanks for the pics.
 
charlie1187 said:
So are these real f-0 equador ? Are they good quality? sorry to ask but i may have misunderstood if these were good quality or not so good ? Thanks for the pics.
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Yeah bro, those are F0 and quality. although the male in the first pic may look a little funny but thats because its in a bag which shows a bad angle and its breathing hard. Check back to Bills post on page 29 where he originally tried to post these pics, and it will explain them:)
 
Yes they are authentic, tried and true. They 1st one is extremely stressed. The gill membranes are spread to capacity giving a slightly deformed appearance at the muzzle. Under normal conditions it looks closer to pic #3. Pics 1-3 are females, #4 is male. When I tried to post them earlier they were in the opposite order.
 
A store near me in NJ. Supposedly it was a wild strain, I only give it a little bit of truth due to the green undertone. Even places I know and trust I question a lot of "wild" fish per say. But this lil bugger has really nice coloring, so I think.
 
Sorry should have specified, just looked back and it was confussing. Fwp and roadrunner have awesome stock. The festae I got fro Dan are pretty typical festae not great but none seem deformed. The ones I got from rapps are a little better but bars are fairly weak on my female. They look great when she is stirred up though so maybe when she picks a mate( if I let her I haven't fallen in love with any of my small males yet so I may be getting one soon).


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