Filtration Necessary?

[Jon M]

But HOB filters also have the sponge inside that collects nitrifying bacteria right? Which is why you typically rinse them in tank water and not tap to not kill off the bb. So I have my setup here, it's on the top of a double stand, it sits head height (so it is very high) and I only have a 14" tall by 36" opening under the stand. So I technically couldn't even fit a 10g tank under there with the lack of height. Running a HOB is obviously about as useful as running no HOB, canister can hinder as oppose to aid, what would be your suggestion for filtration on my tank if the no filtration way isn't going to cut it for my setup.

Noted the skimmer before lights. I'll go ahead and do the skimmer, fish, and then light and corals. Seems like a solid order. Thx for the tip.

Is there anything I should know about this spoon worm? He can't harm anything really correct? I've researched some information online but there isn't much. How big do they get?...

 

[nonstophoops]

But HOB filters also have the sponge inside that collects nitrifying bacteria right? Which is why you typically rinse them in tank water and not tap to not kill off the bb. So I have my setup here, it's on the top of a double stand, it sits head height (so it is very high) and I only have a 14" tall by 36" opening under the stand. So I technically couldn't even fit a 10g tank under there with the lack of height. Running a HOB is obviously about as useful as running no HOB, canister can hinder as oppose to aid, what would be your suggestion for filtration on my tank if the no filtration way isn't going to cut it for my setup.

Noted the skimmer before lights. I'll go ahead and do the skimmer, fish, and then light and corals. Seems like a solid order. Thx for the tip.

Is there anything I should know about this spoon worm? He can't harm anything really correct? I've researched some information online but there isn't much. How big do they get?...

You are correct about the HOB filter and bacteria, but I actually want to kill the BB on the HOB filter because I have the live rock. It will make the population start over and less nitrates will be made while capturing the large wastes. It proly doesn't do much, but whatever.

Only other suggestion is bigger is always better on the skimmer.

Don't know anything in particular about them, but they should be fine.

 

[Jon M]

You are correct about the HOB filter and bacteria, but I actually want to kill the BB on the HOB filter because I have the live rock. It will make the population start over and less nitrates will be made while capturing the large wastes. It proly doesn't do much, but whatever.

Only other suggestion is bigger is always better on the skimmer.

Don't know anything in particular about them, but they should be fine.

So no suggestion on what I should do as far as filtration? If HOB is pointless, canister hinders, and only a 14" tall opening in stand, doesn't leave me with really any other options but the current no filtration? I mean I will get the larger skimmer np, but for what I plan will no canister/hob and a large skimmer be sufficient for what I'm trying to accomplish long term? Stock, corals, etc.

 

[nonstophoops]

So no suggestion on what I should do as far as filtration? If HOB is pointless, canister hinders, and only a 14" tall opening in stand, doesn't leave me with really any other options but the current no filtration? I mean I will get the larger skimmer np, but for what I plan will no canister/hob and a large skimmer be sufficient for what I'm trying to accomplish long term? Stock, corals, etc.

I wouldn't call HOB pointless. I think it helps some. I guess the other benefit I haven't mentioned is carbon keeps the water clearer and removes harmful stuff that can build up.

If you can't have a sump there really isn't much choice. You will have to run a HOB skimmer and the only other option is HOB filter. I still think you will struggle with that many fish, but if you do weekly large water changes you may be ok.

The other option is carbon dosing if you can't keep up. This is something you will want to do some research on and incorporate slowly if you choose to use it.

 

[Jon M]

Gotcha'. Know what stinks? I got an old sw hob/skimmer combo called a skilter filter from an old 95g tank I bought on craigslist. The thing was made of cheap clear plastic though and kept leaking so after siliconing it for like the dozenth time I finally threw it away. That probably would have helped me out in this situation but I simply can't have it constantly leaking and ruining my carpet. :/

So I'll likely pick up a spare HOB from someone. I'm assuming I should not go for anything with a bio wheel, and just run the regular carbon cartridges in it?

 

[nonstophoops]

Gotcha'. Know what stinks? I got an old sw hob/skimmer combo called a skilter filter from an old 95g tank I bought on craigslist. The thing was made of cheap clear plastic though and kept leaking so after siliconing it for like the dozenth time I finally threw it away. That probably would have helped me out in this situation but I simply can't have it constantly leaking and ruining my carpet. :/

So I'll likely pick up a spare HOB from someone. I'm assuming I should not go for anything with a bio wheel, and just run the regular carbon cartridges in it?

Correct.

I just want to verify, I am by no means saying you have to have a HOB. I just think it helps and for how cheap they are, why not I guess.

Make sure you keep the HOB filter clean, otherwise it will be more of a detriment than a help. I let mine go for a bit and I could tell the difference in my tank.

 

[Wiggles92]

Gotcha'. Know what stinks? I got an old sw hob/skimmer combo called a skilter filter from an old 95g tank I bought on craigslist. The thing was made of cheap clear plastic though and kept leaking so after siliconing it for like the dozenth time I finally threw it away. That probably would have helped me out in this situation but I simply can't have it constantly leaking and ruining my carpet. :/

So I'll likely pick up a spare HOB from someone. I'm assuming I should not go for anything with a bio wheel, and just run the regular carbon cartridges in it?

The one LFS near me still sells those things (although the boxes look pretty old).

 

[Jon M]

Well I actually have a spare Regent HOB Power Filter not being used but it's so bloody loud I hate to have it running. Maybe it's time to find out why it's so loud and try to fix it...

The skilter filter was quite loud as well and the skimmer tube that comes out for air made an annoying sound.

But you are saying it's almost going to be necessary to have some form of filtration besides the LR with where I want to go with the tank right nonstophoops?

 

[Otherone]

A few things - Ammonia can be present in tapwater and shows in tests if not treated/trapped w/dechlorinating solutions and activated carbon. It's kinda hard to have low Ammonia readings w/ no Nitrite at all. Second who says a sump has to be in the cabinet, might not be ideal but can be behind the cabinet. Third - HOB filters have the impeller + motor on the bottom in direct water flo that, with saltwater, get blated w/ calcium, mag, and other hard alk solutions which errods the o ring gaskets quickly. Ideally w/ salt you want impellers to be horizontal for minmal contact.

With freshwater, Nitrates are usually controled manually - 50% weekly water changes. This method is ill advised for coral tanks - first it eliminates 50% of the corals photoplankton that lives/grows in the water column. Second if water temps and PH have dramatic swings due to large volume w/c's corals can bleach or die and add's stress to fish which can lead to disease. Berlin airlift style skimmers (tube w/ bubbles to trap and lift protien particles from the water into a cup while expelling 02 rich water) helps greatly w/ saltwater tanks. RO/DI water changes keeps added nasties outta the tank. Phosphate and carbon reactors help eliminate phosphate, sillactes, toxins, and access protiens from building inside the tank as all this stuff is also Natrually occuring thru decomp. Fuge's help eat phosphate, nitrogen, c02, and dissolved protiens while releasing 02 from it's ryzomes at night. However I've read umpteen thousand times - it takes 100 or more plants to create enuff 02 for 1 small fish. With that being said - you need running water, and a bunch of it. This prevents h20 complex molecules from falling apart creating stagnate water conditions. Sump's do this and give you room for the proper type of motor/impeller combo so your not buying HOB +Cannister motors on an annual basis or worse. And Yes the B+B grows on and in the rocks and sand, powerheads move the water thru and across the bacteria/algeas creating a natural filter. Ideally this filter should be 1/3 rd the total volume (LxWxH) of both sump + tank.

As for niosey HOB more than likely the impeller's shot - too much wear causing an imbalance and creating the noise.

 

[SkySouza]

Not to contradict what everyone else has said... but I have been running a 75 gal for a few months without any filtration and have not had any problems at all. I have 4 powerheads on the tank and a very light stock. Like what was said before, in order to keep a tank without a filter you have to have lots of flow, very light stock, small feedings, and a good clean up crew. If you stick to that you will be fine for awhile. Being as I have not had this set up for long I don't know the long term affects, however, I set up this tank to get started while building a stand for my 240. I'm trying to spread out the costs a bit because a tank this large has a very LARGE start up cost. I've still got to pick out a skimmer for 400 total gallons of water in the system.