first salt tank

[TheCanuck]

yea my tank was 6k and my bubble bee grouper, was the same size or just a little smaller.... The next tank we had plan was going to be an addition to the house. It was going to be a 20k tank, built with cement and covered with fake live rock. Got an estimate of 60k, for the enclosure. Thats not including all the sand LR etc. I think your making a huge mistake as well... my bumblebee atleast had a 360 for 2 years, a 180 is nothing but 5 months.

Unless you have the big bucks your not going to last 5 months with this fish. Don't take that personal, i am only 18 and have NO bills but car and fish. So 6k was not that bad for me. The next build was going to be me and my family putting money together for 3 years and take out a minimal loan for me to build credit. I hope you understand what your in for.

If you plan on doing it anyways just go and be on your way, and don't ask if its a good idea. You got the answer and ill try to make it even clearer.

180 is to small
Your concept on filtration is no where near where it needs to be for this fish
your experience isnt either from what we have all gathered

 

[dr_sudz]

]contrary to popular belief live rock is almost irrelivent biofiltration wise, you want more live sand, id go min 150lb prefferably 200lb.
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i still think its a bad idea to go with the bumble bee, and an even worse idea to buy one that is unhealthy, yes theorectialy it could be fine, but it could also become a problem. But if your set on it, get a healthy one.

And as Heathd said, the cost to build or buy a tank big enough for that fish fully grown is outragious, i think thecanuck said his tank was like 10000$ or something crazy like that? and im not even sure it was big enough for a fully grown.

live rock doesnt remove nitrates, coraline algea will remove some, but most nitrates are removed by water changes or refugiums with large macro algeas in them. live rock helps deal with 2 things only (and not as well as live sad does it) ammonia and nitrites, it turns them into nitrates (which are less toxic).

wait this is ur first salt? and you want to get one of the biggest fish in the hobby? i dont think thats wise... but again your money/time.

Are you feeling alright?? to say that live rock doesn't do what everyone clams it does is insane! Live rock is amazing biological filtration, it is a very pores rock that has anaerobic space to remove nitrates. I wouldn't go super crazy on live rock but would stick with the 1 lbs per gallon and I would add the rock to the filters if your going to use the canisters. I would for sure put in a sump so that you can use a proper skimmer so that you reduce the amount of water changes needed seeing that you don't want to waste time and money on salt mixes. I would do a bit more research on salt water filtration because it is more focused on having a more complete and lower nitrate level. fish are easier to keep then the corals but the ideas are pretty much the same.

 

[Heathd]

Are you feeling alright?? to say that live rock doesn't do what everyone clams it does is insane! Live rock is amazing biological filtration, it is a very pores rock that has anaerobic space to remove nitrates. I wouldn't go super crazy on live rock but would stick with the 1 lbs per gallon and I would add the rock to the filters if your going to use the canisters. I would for sure put in a sump so that you can use a proper skimmer so that you reduce the amount of water changes needed seeing that you don't want to waste time and money on salt mixes. I would do a bit more research on salt water filtration because it is more focused on having a more complete and lower nitrate level. fish are easier to keep then the corals but the ideas are pretty much the same.

Live rock is good bio filtration, but sand will house two types of beneficial bacteria, and has a larger surface area (taking into account individual surface area per sand grain). Equal weight of sand compared to equal amount of LR, sand wins. I also think that since LR has exposure to flow and agitation, it will only be able to house one type of BB.

I agree with kevin on this.

 

[dr_sudz]

I would actually still disagree. When it comes to a marine setup, I view the tank as a giant filter, you need to have flow moving through your rock work to make it work best. The gravel doesn't have the flow like you can put through the rock and therefore the better filtration comes from your rock. if you have a deep sand bed it does help with the additional anaerobic bacteria but becomes a time bomb and needs to be removed before long.

 

[Heathd]

if you have a deep sand bed it does help with the additional anaerobic bacteria but becomes a time bomb and needs to be removed before long.

I have yet to see proof of this, and its touch and go as to what people have experienced with dsb. Even if it is 100% true, simply running a fork through the dsb once a month would be more then suffecient for agitation and wouldnt destroy the anaerobic colony.

 

[dr_sudz]

the build up of that anaerobic colony can get out of control in about 4 years. Running the fork through will work for the first few years but could potentially nuke your tank once you reach critical mass.

 

[yzf450motoxrider]

Ok soo def not gonna go with bumble bee grouper. I was comletly unaware they grow that quickly. i think ill put off changing the tank to salt water as the grouper was the main drive for doing so. Still would like to go salt tho.
thanks for all the advice.

 

[fishy12]

I say make a DIY sump not canister filters there bad for salt tanks unless u rlly keep up with maintanance

 

[yzf450motoxrider]

thats what i was planing on DIY sump. but im gonna keep it freshwater for now.

 

[Kevin8888]

Are you feeling alright?? to say that live rock doesn't do what everyone clams it does is insane! Live rock is amazing biological filtration, it is a very pores rock that has anaerobic space to remove nitrates. I wouldn't go super crazy on live rock but would stick with the 1 lbs per gallon and I would add the rock to the filters if your going to use the canisters. I would for sure put in a sump so that you can use a proper skimmer so that you reduce the amount of water changes needed seeing that you don't want to waste time and money on salt mixes. I would do a bit more research on salt water filtration because it is more focused on having a more complete and lower nitrate level. fish are easier to keep then the corals but the ideas are pretty much the same.

This is somewhat true, I don't disagree that live rock is a good biofilter, but sand is better period. The misconseption that live rock is the most important biofiltration was created by the people who sell live rock so they can sell more.

I would actually still disagree. When it comes to a marine setup, I view the tank as a giant filter, you need to have flow moving through your rock work to make it work best. The gravel doesn't have the flow like you can put through the rock and therefore the better filtration comes from your rock. if you have a deep sand bed it does help with the additional anaerobic bacteria but becomes a time bomb and needs to be removed before long.

the build up of that anaerobic colony can get out of control in about 4 years. Running the fork through will work for the first few years but could potentially nuke your tank once you reach critical mass.

You would be surprized how effective a DSB can be, you don't need hundreds gallons of water flowing through your bio every second for it to work. The Nitrogen compounds disperce through the water, and therefore when there is a lower concentration in the sand due to consumption the Nitrogen flows to the area of low concentration, thats just basic chemisty/biology, high flows to low untill equal.

Infact with a proper DSB running a fork through can nuke your system as it will cause a huge dieout in the micro inverts that live in your sand, but when not disturbed will never cause a problem. The idea is to have a diverce ecosystem contained in the sand, full of pods, micro stars, worms, bacteria, snales, etc when up to a proper population these critters will maintain you DSB perfectly. Their population/movement will stir the sand so much more then you could ever hope to do (yes they are small but there is millions of them and they move allll day), allowing propper flow of nutrients in and out of the sand, wile preventing the "nuke".