Fish not sharing genes?

[tiger15]

Whether a cultivated species is a hybrid depends on the definition of what is a hybrid, and what is a species.

In fish taxonomy, the standards for speciation are arbitrary and capricious, and change over time. What used to be a singular oscar species has been revised to 3 to 4 distinct species. What used to be 3 distinct species of angel fish has been revised to a dozen distinct species. What used to be a singular Frontosa species has been revised to 2 to 3 distinct species. They were not hybrid when they were cross bred in the early days, but because of a change of species definition, they became hybrids over night.

In mammal, there is clear standard that two distinct species cannot cross breed to produce fertile youngs. Lion and tiger can cross breed to produce liger, horse and donkey can cross breed to produce ass, but neither liger or ass is infertile. Not so with fish as nearly all fish hybrids are fertile and this is why crossing can endanger the purity of the species.

Next, do you consider crossing races of the same species a hybrid? Is so, then crossing races of the same fish species produce hybrids. Using the same definition, children of inter racial marriage are hybrid, not pure human species, right?

 

[Runitis]

There is a sticky in the hybrid forums saying what Cichlids hybridize and what don't. Read it and it will answer some questions and narrow the search

 

[Azedenkae]

Well in genetics (for which I'm partial to, being a geneticist and all), a hybrid is simply an offspring of two or more individuals that combines different genetic elements. So you're a hybrid of your mother and father.

I guess therefore we can use proper phrases to discuss hybrids to minimize confusions in each situation. For example, 'inter-species hybrid' refers to hybrids of different species, 'inter-generic hybrid' refers to hybrids of different genera and so on. What is a species and what isn't, I'll leave to the taxonomists, but yeah.

 

[crush329]

Nice inpuut fellas! I really wasn't trying to make this thread that sophisticated but here we are lol. Now when I think of hybrid I don't think of different colors of the same species... Like my white convict with white bars. It is a mtation from a certain species but that doesn't enable me to give it the term hybrid. When I use hybrid I mean two "different" species. Not trying to argue... Just want to clarify so we stay on the same track. Yeah I seen that thread/sticky and it shows a lot lol. I still think this thread has a point though. love all the input and can't say if any answer is right or wrong so I will fall back and let you experts let us know if the guesses are correct or not. So from the looks of it... So far Discus and Angels are the only 2 that have yet to... Let's say "Cross breed". How about that... Is cross breeding more politically correct for what I'm asking? Lol

 

[Azedenkae]

Doesn't really matter in my opinion. But anyways most store sold discus are crossbreeds of related species, so they're out.

 

[crush329]

Doesn't really matter in my opinion. But anyways most store sold discus are crossbreeds of related species, so they're out.

Oh ok. Now I better understand what your saying. It's just like MIDEVILS bought from local stores... they are all hybrids. Although the 2 different species are different... the outcome of them being cross bred still produces an arguable fsh(cant for sure call one a midas or red devil). With that said I still understand that when you breed 2 different fish like a convict and ?... most of the time you will see mostly convict from first generation(line breeding for other looks would be for another thread). Ok, so with that state of mind the store bought discus would be hybrids. But I wasnt really trying to go that route lol. It's good it was stated and clarified(or was it lol). But can we not be as specific lol... Like are there any green terror hybrids out there?

 

[livebearerfreak]

cross breeding isnt creating hybrids, so thats out..

 

[Azedenkae]

Mmk. Well I'm pretty sure there arent any GT hybrids then.

 

[crush329]

cross breeding isnt creating hybrids, so thats out..

Ok. Just so that everybody on here knows the difference, please explain the difference between cross breeding and creating hybrids. I was under the influence that the first initial move of the spawning of 2 different species was cross breeding. Then, from there on you line breed to "create" a more distinctive hybrid. Not trying to argue, I really want to know! Lol

Mmk. Well I'm pretty sure there arent any GT hybrids then.

Well if your pretty sure... It will be until stated otherwise! lol

 

[livebearerfreak]

hybrids is spawning two fish of waay different genus, cross breeding is spawning fish in the same genus for better looks or what ever they want to cross breed for.