Fish only grow to the size of their environment.

[Hawkfish3.0]

This is why we can't have nice things.

I don't get it. Who can't have nice things?

 

[rba718]

Also, they did an expirement with I believe minnows or some really cheap schooling fish of some sort. They packed about 10 fish in a 10 gallon tank, HOWEVER, they set up the filter so that one end of the tank's wall was the intake and the other wall was the out-take, so there was a constant exchange and cleaning of water.

Turns out, the fish kept growing even until they were packed in so tightly inside the tank they had but a couple of inches to move around. I guess when it comes down to it, clean and healthy water makes a big deal, but tank size is still a major issue as far as a fish being comfortable in its own environment goes.

No fish was harmed in this expirement.

 

[rba718]

I don't get it. Who can't have nice things?

I meant because of people like the store owner who own a fish store but don't know a lot about what they sell.

 

[Tongue33]

The trouble is that such an experiment can't be done without delving into the area of animal cruelty. Do us all a favor and read up on the subject of brown-blood disease/nitrite poisoning. Add to this the maintenance schedule/regimen required to maintain a large-growing species in a 10 gal to achieve clean clear water and 'healthy parameters'. What you're proposing is simply not a sage idea or any kind of ideal to strive for due to the added maintenance costs/requirements and for the overall health of the fish.

It may also help to look up;

methemoglobin (brown blood) and;
Nitrite Toxicosis

This disease is quick to contract and takes a long time to recover from. Keep in mind that fish have nucleated red blood cells. They produce new blood cells through cell differentiation instead of developing new blood cells within bone marrow as is the case with mammals. Diseased blood cells differentiate into new pairs of diseased cells. Keeping pristine conditions will eventually relieve the disease through dilution of toxic products. During the time the fish is maintained in poor conditions, it will experience a reduction in oxygen absorption resulting in reduced activity levels, an increase in susceptability to disease (requiring the additional expenses for treatments), and reduction of longevity. All that's needed to avoid all of this is to properly house the fish in an environment suitably meeting its needs for life instead of cramming said fish into vessels they can only just survive in.

YOur such A PIMP Oddball!!

This kinda stuff is why YOU are my all time favorite person on this site!!!

 

[Camphilophus]

This marcus guy didn't believe me, thanks everybody!

 

[Hawkfish3.0]

I meant because of people like the store owner who own a fish store but don't know a lot about what they sell.

Ah, gotcha!

Well, IME, there are many store owners that don't know jack or squat about the fish they sell. However, this guy transcends the level of ignorance beyond that of any store owner I've ever met. Basically, his advice is to be a s****y fish keeper and you'll have no problems. That would be like a social service worker telling a young, single mother to try and get pregnant so that she can get a better welfare check. It's just plain irresponsible.

 

[MustangMan]

Just a question, but how long do your fish normally live? Because stunted growth results in a very short life span, undue stress, which turns into serious diseases, and ultimately, a dead fish. How'd you like it if we made you live the rest of your life in a 8x8x16 room and you were never allowed out of it? you'd feel kinda cramped after about 5 minutes. (talking to the mac-some numbers-us-some numbers guy)

 

[rba718]

Ah, gotcha!

Well, IME, there are many store owners that don't know jack or squat about the fish they sell. However, this guy transcends the level of ignorance beyond that of any store owner I've ever met. Basically, his advice is to be a s****y fish keeper and you'll have no problems. That would be like a social service worker telling a young, single mother to try and get pregnant so that she can get a better welfare check. It's just plain irresponsible.

I agree, most LFS don't know too much about what they're doing but I doubt they'd ever tell me something like that. That's Walmart Pet Department ignorance right there.

 

[2004exrider]

finally someone agreeds. As long as ur water perimeter is good, clear water and healthy. They should do fine. The only draw back is stunted growth. Just like how i stated in my email. It not a "required" to buy a big tank. If u grow it from fry to large then it okay.

But if u buy it big big from lfs store, then that a different story. That all i am saying. They will grow base on living space. Do ur experientment and u see if i am wrong.

Example: small oscar in 10g, will not grow as big as an oscar in a 150?

best test subject is peco,

 

[the_deeb]

Keep in mind that fish have nucleated red blood cells. They produce new blood cells through cell differentiation instead of developing new blood cells within bone marrow as is the case with mammals. Diseased blood cells differentiate into new pairs of diseased cells.

Oddball - do you have a reference for this? I realize that fish have nucleated RBCs, but how does this relate to erythropoiesis?

In mammals red blood cells develop in the bone marrow from lineage committed precursors (proerythroblasts). Similarly, I thought fish RBCs generally develop from committed precursors in the cranial kidney and spleen. While the site of erthyropoiesis differs, most RBCs are still generated from precursors rather than subsequent division of mature RBCs.

Furthermore, I would assume that a newly differentiated RBC would synthesize its own hemoglobin rather than simply using hemoglobin "inherited" from it's precursors. Since methemoglobinemia is a condition caused by oxidation of hemoglobin it would only affect the existing hemoglobin and shouldn't have an effect on newly transcribed hemoglobin, or subsequent inheritance of hemoglobin genes.

I'm not trying to be an ass. It's just that your statement goes against my understanding of methemoglobinemia and erythropoiesis. If it's really true then I'd be very interested to learn more about it.

Sorry for the derail.