Florida "wild" salvini
- Thread starter mabirchell
- Start date
My club and a fellow fort Myers club are organizing an all species fish expo down here. The expo also offers a collecting trip in fort Myers, but if you don't catch what your looking for, feel free to extend your trip to swing by Broward and Miami! Here's the link:
http://www.flafishshow.com/
Here's the link to the club I belong to, Gold Coast aquarium society:
http://gcaquarium.org/
We catch a lot of cool stuff down here...
But regarding the topic, I believe there are distinct differences between the remote populations of Florida oscars (un-contaminated by releases for many generations) and oscars found in the trade and in their native range. Another exotic species, the Mayan cichlid, seems to have many localities here in Broward county, with varying amounts of red, blue, and size of adult coloration. I think the Mayan cichlid and the Oscar would be excellent candidates for a professional study based on the exotics evolving to fit into the Florida ecosystem.
Anyway, most feral Florida fish are prettier than the majority of the same species floating in home aquariums anyway!
lol
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http://www.flafishshow.com/
Here's the link to the club I belong to, Gold Coast aquarium society:
http://gcaquarium.org/
We catch a lot of cool stuff down here...
But regarding the topic, I believe there are distinct differences between the remote populations of Florida oscars (un-contaminated by releases for many generations) and oscars found in the trade and in their native range. Another exotic species, the Mayan cichlid, seems to have many localities here in Broward county, with varying amounts of red, blue, and size of adult coloration. I think the Mayan cichlid and the Oscar would be excellent candidates for a professional study based on the exotics evolving to fit into the Florida ecosystem.
Anyway, most feral Florida fish are prettier than the majority of the same species floating in home aquariums anyway!
lolSent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
One other interesting response from my friend Larry Johnson on my Facebook page (www.facebook.com/aquamojo ):
Ad Konings had sugggested years ago that the offspring from Wild Fish should be called G1 (Generation 1, meaning from Wild Caught), and after that they should be called Aquarium Fish NOT G2. I think the "F" code is a bit over worked here and as I understand the Euopeans classify there F1 fish as coming from a "known pair". This thinking is followed by the Discus breeders on Simply Discus,"F1 Rose Discus" (as an example) are not the first generation from Wild Caught!
So to further complicate the filial issue, discus breeders, on their quest to develop the next "lollipop" color discus, will oftne name the first generation of their breeding program as F1...NOT from a wild pair, but from a new pair of tank raised discus.
Ad Konings had sugggested years ago that the offspring from Wild Fish should be called G1 (Generation 1, meaning from Wild Caught), and after that they should be called Aquarium Fish NOT G2. I think the "F" code is a bit over worked here and as I understand the Euopeans classify there F1 fish as coming from a "known pair". This thinking is followed by the Discus breeders on Simply Discus,"F1 Rose Discus" (as an example) are not the first generation from Wild Caught!
So to further complicate the filial issue, discus breeders, on their quest to develop the next "lollipop" color discus, will oftne name the first generation of their breeding program as F1...NOT from a wild pair, but from a new pair of tank raised discus.
Another interesting perspective Mo. I'm a member over at Simply and I've seen the F numbers applied like that which I disagree with. IMHO F0 should be applied to fish from the wild only, with the following generations being in sequence F1, 2 ect. I like the idea and would submit the using of a G (generation) system being used for these "man made strains" G1, using your example above G1 Rose Discus for the original fish of that strain from a pairing of fish used to produce them. After that no additional numbers would be needed they would then simply be Rose Discus.
The idea of refering to a feral population of fish as F0 doesn't seem unreasonable to me as long as the collection point/local is used in the name. Angelfish populations use it all the time. I have a group of P. Scalare (Rio Nanay) which is a distinct population from P. Scalare (Santa Isabel) as an example or my P. Altum (Rio Inirida) which is a distinct population from P. Altum (Rio Atabapo) this is just a good practice and certantly nothing new. While the angelfish I refer to are wild populations occuring naturally with in their range the example of type local is valid in this instance as the florida fish will most definatly morph into a seperate race and perhaps species or sub-species over time. The fact that they were introduced by man not withstanding. This is a wild self sustaining population of fish, weather we like it or not. Just my take on it.
The idea of refering to a feral population of fish as F0 doesn't seem unreasonable to me as long as the collection point/local is used in the name. Angelfish populations use it all the time. I have a group of P. Scalare (Rio Nanay) which is a distinct population from P. Scalare (Santa Isabel) as an example or my P. Altum (Rio Inirida) which is a distinct population from P. Altum (Rio Atabapo) this is just a good practice and certantly nothing new. While the angelfish I refer to are wild populations occuring naturally with in their range the example of type local is valid in this instance as the florida fish will most definatly morph into a seperate race and perhaps species or sub-species over time. The fact that they were introduced by man not withstanding. This is a wild self sustaining population of fish, weather we like it or not. Just my take on it.
But Tom, i realy cannot see a sp Scalare F0 ( Florida/ canal so and so / miami )
Feral is wild but not from a wild natural collection point. So should not be F0
But this is just us banding words....
Feral is wild but not from a wild natural collection point. So should not be F0
But this is just us banding words....
This is one of those discussions that will have two schools of thought on the subject. I think it's a great tipic to discuess and I love this kind of stuff because of the different perspectives. We all collectivly learn from this type of interaction and exchange of ideas. I respect your opinion but for the reasons stated, respectivly disagree, which is ok.
People who are serious about developing "fancy" strains of whatever use the filial system to track their breeding lines. It's actual just as appropriate use of the system as its application to wild lines.
Maybe I'm missing the point of why there is overwhelming desire on the part of some to call introduced populations of non-native fish "F0" when more descriptive terms are available?
Fish that are exposed to natural foods and sunlight can develop some amazing colors. Canal (and pond) fish from Florida (or wherever) are no different. It's not "superior" genetics (whatever that means)... it's sun and diet.
One thing that we're missing in this discussion is that the introduction of non-native fish (snakes, rodents, etc.) adversely impacts the environment. Thriving populations of oscars, cichlids, snakeheads, plecos, whatever...mean that the animals that would otherwise occupy those niches in the ecosystem are being pressured in unnatural ways, if not threatened or made extinct. It's a way that our hobby and the industry around has adversely impacted conservation.
Matt
Maybe I'm missing the point of why there is overwhelming desire on the part of some to call introduced populations of non-native fish "F0" when more descriptive terms are available?
Fish that are exposed to natural foods and sunlight can develop some amazing colors. Canal (and pond) fish from Florida (or wherever) are no different. It's not "superior" genetics (whatever that means)... it's sun and diet.
One thing that we're missing in this discussion is that the introduction of non-native fish (snakes, rodents, etc.) adversely impacts the environment. Thriving populations of oscars, cichlids, snakeheads, plecos, whatever...mean that the animals that would otherwise occupy those niches in the ecosystem are being pressured in unnatural ways, if not threatened or made extinct. It's a way that our hobby and the industry around has adversely impacted conservation.
Matt
