for all you gun owners, why is the second amendment important?

[Noto]

THAT IS COMPLETE UTTER BULL ****!!

Please back that up with some facts other that that BS that ***** Pelosi spewed a few months back. Most of these weapons are FA and come from their VERY VERY corrupt military and police as well as being imported from Asia and come in from their very loose ports or are coming north from South America along with the drugs. Why would you cross the border and get a semi AK for $700 when you can buy one from Columbia that goes RocknRoll for $200 along with that kilo of coke?

Mexicans are NOT coming across the border to buy guns from gun dealers...you obviously know NOTHING about guns.

This isn't anything new. The ATF has been cooperating with the Mexican authorities to try to crack down on this gun-running since at least the 1990s, when Operation Forward Trace was conducted to locate guns purchased in the southwest by suspected Mexican criminals. In 2001, US Attorney General John Ashcroft and his Mexican counterpart Rafael Macedo de la Concha cooperated to crack down on cross-border gun-smuggling: http://www.davekopel.com/espanol/Mexican-Gun-Laws.htm.

More:
http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/eng/texts/et080116eTrace.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/04/03/gun.smuggling/index.html

Now it's true that the often-quoted 90% figure is an exaggeration, but that doesn't mean that US guns are insignificant in Mexican criminal activity. The figure is more like 15-20%, which is still a hell of a lot of guns.

 

[JD7.62]

calm down man, its just a discussion, hopefully we are mature enough that we can debate and discuss in a civil manner?

You demand for numbers to support what Noto has said but don;t provide any to support your opinion.

Here's a link to something that does support what he said, so I'm guessing you don;t know so much about Mexicans


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/us/26borders.html

MEXICANS CAN NOT BUY GUNS FROM DEALERS.

Most of the "facts" from that NY Times article have been proven wrong.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/

 

[MadRussian79]

If owning gun is a patriotic thing to do then is it also patriotic to buy non US manufactured guns?
If the constitution was legally changed , as it could conceivably be at some time, by the required majority vote then would gun owners give up their guns to protect democracy? or would they then defy the law? It seems that some only cite the constitution when it suits them.
Is majority rule and the principle of democracy and the rule of law more or less important than gun ownership?
just asking

Do you honestly think the feds will get any more liberal then they are now? You really think they will pass the repealing of one of the amendments in the bill of right? The fire arms industry has a deeper pedigree and bigger friends than medical insurance.

With regards to the changing time, yes but I think you missed part of the change. First guns are no where near as dangerous as a lunatic with and engineering degree or lots of free time and the internet. Don't get me started on what one can do with a pre-paid cell phone and a well stocked hardware store. Banning or heavily restricting guns in the US will not have any effect on crime or suicide. Fire arms are heavily restricted in the old soviet estern block and both crime and sucide are much higher. Sweden has a higher sucide rate than we do and the have few guns and free acess to mental health resources. People will still kill themselves but with rope, pills, and kitchen knives vs shotguns. Also the idea of banning guns will only have the fairy tale effect if the feds can take out all the illegal guns. They can't even control American Pot growers hwo can you expect them to disarm all illegal gun owners?

I support the right to responsibly bare arms (bear arms). If you intend to carry make damn sure you know how and when to use it. If you can't even hit the paper target at 50 feet you sure as hell should not be carrying in public.

 

[DavidW]

Fox news, ah yes, such a reputable source, but even it says " The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S."
Which would tend to disagree with your assertion "MEXICANS CAN NOT BUY GUNS FROM DEALERS"

 

[DavidW]

I support the right to responsibly bare arms. If you intend to carry make damn sure you know how and when to use it. If you can't even hit the paper target at 50 feet you sure as hell should not be carrying in public.

I agree ( except with 'bare' arms, it can get cold)

 

[MadRussian79]

MEXICANS CAN NOT BUY GUNS FROM DEALERS.

Not legally. If a gun dealer wants to sell the guns under the table then sure. Just like the guns can be brought over from the old Eastern block or the Mid east. This is the the part of the gun trade that will not be the least effected by tighter restrictions. I won't own or carry but the local gang banger will still have his/her gat.

 

[jcardona1]

so the US is responsible for the gun crime in Mexico? what a load of bull, as proved by JDs link. as stated in that article, the guns in mexico come from many other sources, mainly the black market. and the fact that most of those guns are not even sold in US gun stores proves that 90% to be another pointless "statisitic"

 

[jcardona1]

Fox news, ah yes, such a reputable source, but even it says " The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S."
Which would tend to disagree with your assertion "MEXICANS CAN NOT BUY GUNS FROM DEALERS"

youre only reading what you want to read. you missed the part where it said mexicans are enlisting US citizens to buy a few guns at a time for them, yes, US CITIZENS.

this is all feeling like deja vu again with you

 

[JD7.62]

Do you honestly think the feds will get any more liberal then they are now? You really think they will pass the repealing of one of the amendments in the bill of right? The fire arms industry has a deeper pedigree and bigger friends than medical insurance.

With regards to the changing time, yes but I think you missed part of the change. First guns are no where near as dangerous as a lunatic with and engineering degree or lots of free time and the internet. Don't get me started on what one can do with a pre-paid cell phone and a well stocked hardware store. Banning or heavily restricting guns in the US will not have any effect on crime or suicide. Fire arms are heavily restricted in the old soviet estern block and both crime and sucide are much higher. Sweden has a higher sucide rate than we do and the have few guns and free acess to mental health resources. People will still kill themselves but with rope, pills, and kitchen knives vs shotguns. Also the idea of banning guns will only have the fairy tale effect if the feds can take out all the illegal guns. They can't even control American Pot growers hwo can you expect them to disarm all illegal gun owners?

I support the right to responsibly bare arms (bear arms). If you intend to carry make damn sure you know how and when to use it. If you can't even hit the paper target at 50 feet you sure as hell should not be carrying in public.

Great post, I agree for the most part, but I really cant hit a paper target at 50ft...and I carry every day.

 

[MadRussian79]

Great post, I agree for the most part, but I really cant hit a paper target at 50ft...and I carry every day.

Standard pistol range is 25 ft or 50 ft? Also I mean the human silhouette target not the standard round competition target.