freshwater salt

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brianp;1848642; said:
I had no idea. But if the fish apparently don't need sodium chloride in their native environments (other than brackish fish, of course), why would they benefit from it in an aquarium? I'm really intrigued by this topic.

because a tiny glass box is vastly different from their natual environment that consists of millions of gallons of water. i posted this somewhere else, but it has some good info...

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article5.html





The use of salt in freshwater tanks has recently been a controversial subject of some debate. This article is intended to give some objective information so that the beginner can make their own decision.

First off, some definitions. When we speak of "salt", this is a confusing term, because salts are a large heterogeneous group that consists of any ionically bound elements or compounds. The salt that most freshwater aquarists mean to speak of, however, is NaCl (sodium chloride). THIS SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH MARINE SALT, WHICH CONTAINS BUFFERS THAT ARE VERY HARMFUL TO MANY FRESHWATER FISH. Table salt is basically also NaCl, only with iodine added (the myth that iodized salt is harmful fish is largely false... iodine is a natural element that is needed in the diet of all fish, and is actually a supplement in many fish foods... the only thing in table salt of real harm to FW fish are the decaking agents, which are very low in concentration).





********************PROS*******************

The reasons that some aquarists use salt in their FW tanks (usually at a concentration of 1 tablespoon / 5 gallons... do not confuse this with "brackishness" as this is a much lower concentration, and true brackish tanks use mostly other types of "hard" salts... see warning against marine salt, above) as a general preventative to disease are as follows:


Salt adds electrolytes, which reduce osmotic stress to the gills. This is especially important during disease, when the ability of the fish to maintain homeostasis with its surrounding water is disturbed.

Salt can aid in the production of the slime layer and speed up the healing of some wound sites. This occurs by hyperosmolarity... fish have a certain specific gravity (concentration of total dissolved solids) in their bodily fluids, and so does the surrounding water... if the surrounding water has a slightly higher concentration, the fluids from the wound site move into the water around it, and fresh plasma goes in to replace it, creating more blood flow in that area (makes it heal faster).

Many pathogens, such as Ichthyophthirius (the protozoan that causes "ick"), do not particularly like salt.






********************CONS********************
Despite some of its (rather minor) potential benefits, there are a lot of potential dangers to consider in using salt, especially if you are a beginner. Please make special note of these.


Although NaCl is not composed of any truly "hard" ions (laundering ions of Mg or Ca, which produce the hard water stains on your tank and are the only ions that count in true carbonate hardness), it does raise the total dissolved solids in the water... these add up to raise general hardness, or GH. This is not well tolerated by a number of fish, especially true softwater fish from places like the Amazon river basin, where there are very few electrolytes of any kind in the water. These fish include (but are not limited to) neon tetras, cardinal tetras, rummy nose tetras, hatchetfish, elephantnoses, and discus... in addition, most live plants will not tolerate it either. DO NOT USE SALT WITH ANY OF THESE FISH, AS SOME HAVE RATHER STRINGENT PH/KH/GH REQUIREMENTS, AND COULD DIE AS A RESULT OF THIS ADDITION. There are other Amazonian fish such as angelfish which will not particularly prefer salt, but may possibly tolerate it because they are hardier. Salt can also have an unpredictable effect on other fish, since there are no bodies of water in Nature which are naturally saline (high in NaCl) but very low in "true" hardness ion concentration (Mg, Ca, etc)... Rift African species, for example, need more than just ordinary "aquarium salt" (NaCl alone).

Salt, if not predissolved carefully, can give fish bad burns. This is especially true of scaleless fish, such as some types of eels and scaleless catfish.

The efficacy (effectiveness) of salt has not been proven experimentally to the satisfaction of many in the pet trade. Some swear by it, but many, as you can see, swear against it.



THE GENERAL RULE IN ANY TANK, ESPECIALLY THAT OF A BEGINNER, IS TO STEER CLEAR OF ADDING ARTIFICIAL ADDITIVES UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Salt in many tanks is not... in a livebearer only tank (such as one with mollies, swordtails, guppies, or platys), I would consider recommending it (these are moderately hard water fish which like electrolytes in their water... some, such as the molly, from it's Yucatan peninsula natural habitat, actually prefer it because they are semi-brackish), but since so many community tanks contain more delicate, soft water fish such as the neon tetra, I usually do not. Please consider all your fish carefully when setting up a tank environment, as harmony in a mini-ecosystem is extremely difficult to achieve and any one thing can throw it off. The (bolded) note on chemical additives goes not only for salt addition, but also for medications, pH up/down solutions, snail/algae eradicator, etc... if you are a novice and not entirely familiar with what you are adding, USE GREAT CAUTION, and educate yourself completely on the potential effects (some of which are unpredictable) of that product before you add it.
 
jcardona1;1848618; said:
wow midnight all the DIY stuff youve made yet you fall victim to the most simplest marketing gimmicks, thats sad. i also have few thousand gallons of water with my koi pond. ive been using this salt for years with no problems. i know you dont believe me, but you dont believe Morton either when they say its safe for fish?

Why would they put it on their website if they werent 100% sure it was safe for fish? can you imagine the legal implications if their products started killing peoples fish after they said it was safe? you can keep using your expensive aquarium salt, makes no difference to me, or your fish for that matter. i know there are people here that will use this advice as it doesnt make sense to pay more for the EXACT same product. just cause your fishy store says not to use anything other than aquarium salt doesnt mean anything else is bad.

in fact, im sure API has a side deal with morton to buy salt from them, then they put it in a fancy carton and jack up the price 500%. show me ONE case where somebody had adverse effects using something other than aquarium salt and then i might believe you. until then, ill take your comments with a grain of salt (pun intended?!?!?!??!) :)

and its not about the money, i just dont like being suckered like you aquarium salt guys...
all i can say is
why isnt it in ANY lfs hmm???/?
it is sold for well water systems not in the fish department
if it was for fish,dont you think they would sell it in the fish section?
kinda dumb to know they could sell it in 2 places yet they dont?
api isnt giving them that kind of cash for them to not sell it in ANY lfs
;)
and theres no way to prove using any salt or chem killed a fish so thats out the window also
;)

jcardona1;1848632; said:
just curious, what do you mean by "the good stuff"?? what, you're pretty, cute little API carton? :ROFL::ROFL:wake up man, you just got took!!! hook line and sinker
good stuff as in meant for aquariums not house water lol
and i didnt get took 4 nothin
i buy what im suppose to
like i said
you might as well use,peroxide,well water salt,baking soda,and so on,if your going to use one cus the lfs stuff is all a rip off right?
:grinno:
hey you can really save money by going and bottling up water from your local river to do a w/c
then you save on your water bill
:ROFL:
im done with this
im sure you cant answer why its not in a lfs
and the amount i buy and use im not worried how much it costs for that lil bit
so in all,its not really going to change anything or make my pockets fatter
;)
 
Pure sodium chloride is pure sodium chloride. Period. No if's, and's, or but's. Additives are one thing, but if it's pure, the only thing you're paying for is marketing.
 
yeah midnight its pointless for us to argue over this back and forth, but i will address your question. you asked why dont they sell it at the LFS. simple answer to that is, THEY DO. its just sold by API and placed in a different package.

as hawkfish said, pure salt is pure salt, whether its an a big bag or a carton. there's no arguing about that. and bringing up baking soda and peroxide...er thats like apples and oranges in relation to pure sodium chloride. :screwy:

buts its all good, our fish are getting the same thing whether you like it or not :cheers:
 
jcardona1;1848632; said:
just curious, what do you mean by "the good stuff"?? what, you're pretty, cute little API carton? :ROFL::ROFL:wake up man, you just got took!!! hook line and sinker


if people don't mind needlessly paying extra, let them. in fact, from now on I'm only using water harvested from glaciers in antarctica. and when I salt my aquarium, it will only be with the purest salt from the dead sea.
 
"because a tiny glass box is vastly different from their natual environment that consists of millions of gallons of water".


Got it.....they're "different". So that's why they need salt. Now why didn't I think of that.
 
brianp;1850267; said:
"because a tiny glass box is vastly different from their natual environment that consists of millions of gallons of water".


Got it.....they're "different". So that's why they need salt. Now why didn't I think of that.

i suggest you read the rest of my post
 
brianp;1850267; said:
Got it.....they're "different". So that's why they need salt. Now why didn't I think of that.
No, they do not need salt. Just because the environment seemed so different doesn't mean you have to use salt. Keep that salt away from your tank unless you are keeping brackish or marine fish in which case get marine salt for this very reason.
 
Lupin;1850953;1850953 said:
No, they do not need salt. Just because the environment seemed so different doesn't mean you have to use salt. Keep that salt away from your tank unless you are keeping brackish or marine fish in which case get marine salt for this very reason.
if you say so
 
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